Systemd Brand

http://brand.systemd.io/

by Reventlov • 7 years ago

54 86 7 years ago

brand.systemd.io

jolmg5• 7 years ago

I wonder what drove the need for a logo/brand. Maybe it's to make it more noticeable that it's not written "SystemD".

It's probably dangerous to wear a systemd T-shirt in some places. You also probably don't want to have a systemd bumper car sticker in those same places either.

bovermyer• 7 years ago

I'm not a fan or a detractor of systemd, but I'd wear a shirt with this logo on it just to start fights.

capableweb3• 7 years ago

Hopefully all those rabid programmers who'd start fights with each other over a t-shirt about a suite of software, have moved to SF already so the rest of the world don't have to deal with that.

umanwizard• 7 years ago

Plenty of places in the world still where people will start fights over soccer team colors...

sneak• 7 years ago

https://twitter.com/hintjens/status/528278007417696256

capableweb3• 7 years ago

Following that link, I also came across https://twitter.com/hintjens/status/783254242052206592

"I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm." @12:35 PM · Oct 4, 2016

From Wikipedia: Pieter Hintjens (3 December 1962 – 4 October 2016) was a Belgian software developer

It's his choice, and I support it if that's what he really wanted, but it's still really creepy to see.

rabidrat• 7 years ago

He was in a lot of pain and wanted to die on his own terms. He was an advocate for dying with dignity, and his last message was to help normalize euthanasia. The creepiness you feel is your impetus to work through your feelings about death and come to terms with it, to admire his incredible clarity and mental ease without having to couch it in "it's his choice" terms. I thought at the time it was a touching piece of humanity and I am grateful he was bold enough to express it.

ocdtrekkie• 7 years ago

If you check his website at http://hintjens.com/ you'll see "In April 2016 he was diagnosed with terminal metastasis of a previous cancer".

So his choice was that or further suffering to the same end result.

markvdb• 7 years ago

Friends and I paid him a visit when he was already living on borrowed time.

It was what he really wanted.

I fondly remember the July 2005 party we had at his Molenbeek warehouse after defeating the EU software patents directive. His 4am African music and dance demonstration. Memories...

dogecoinbase• 7 years ago

Oh hey, if I make a user named [⬤◀], its services will automatically be started as root. What a handy feature.

fwxwi4• 7 years ago

In case you ever doubted the systemd team suffers from delusions of grandeur.

mgbmtl2• 7 years ago

Really? Like most projects, they have a logo. What's wrong with that?

fwxwi4• 7 years ago

A logo, a palette of colours, a typography, brand guidelines... all for an init system for Linux. They think they are fucking Coca Cola.

If you don't think that's just insane... well I'm just getting old I guess.

sorenjan2• 7 years ago

How do your pronounce it?

Spivak• 7 years ago

“system dee” like “collect dee” or “ess ess aitch dee”

sorenjan2• 7 years ago

That's what I thought, but why not write it as SystemD or system-d then?

brian_herman__• 7 years ago

It should be instead

A stop job is running for Session c2 of user ... (9min 30s)

jasoneckert• 7 years ago

After reading "Savaged by Systemd" by M.W.Lucas, I need this logo to get the visuals out of my head (link here for those that are curious: https://www.amazon.com/Savaged-Systemd-Erotic-Unix-Encounter...)

artonge• 7 years ago

Can someone share the reasons why systemd generate so much hate ?

I seems to me that it is quite useful and easy to use.

aidenn0• 7 years ago

My current thoughts on the matter here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21313885

sergiomattei3• 7 years ago

Because it's trendy to hate on systemd. It's a bandwagon.

Really, that's it. There's technical reasons for really advanced users, but for average users systemd works just fine, and it's easy to use.

In my experience, it's been a pleasure to use.

JohnFen5• 7 years ago

That's not true or fair.

That you've had a wonderful experience with it doesn't mean that others don't have legitimate issues with it.

simion314• 7 years ago

I agree that regular users should not debate this , but I seen admins critiquing systemd and regular users trending on defending systemd and on linux reddit the topics are always locked instead of moderating the bad actors.

As an example GDM/GNOME should not depend on systemd components and they should accept patches to support alternatives.

esarbe4• 7 years ago

That's about my experience too. Systemd just works. It's easy to create new systemd units for all kind of dependent services and resources. Be it server or desktop; systemd just does it's thing and it's bloody good at it.

(shrug)

Hater's will hate, I guess?

caiocaiocaio4• 7 years ago

Building a Linux distro was like playing with Lego: the pieces were very interchangeable (in practice there were difficulties, but usually ones that were fun and rewarding to resolve; "fun and rewarding" is the exact opposite of SystemD).

SystemD also fails quietly or with useless errors and makes problems hard to diagnose - so a bug not directly caused by SystemD looks like it comes from SystemD because SystemD slime is on everything - is extremely poorly-documented, extremely over-engineered, and subject to rapid change due to the moodiness and instability of the OverPoetter.

luckycharms810• 7 years ago

I will say on the flip side - Going from cron jobs to Systemd timers has been super helpful. You can use journalctl to track the output and find pesky issues like difference in shell, missing environment variables, file permission issues.

atonse2• 7 years ago

Can you expand on what you feel is over-engineered?

esarbe4• 7 years ago

Your name-calling disqualifies you and discredits any valid argument you might have had.

kstrauser2• 7 years ago

The short version is that Unix has traditionally been built around small tools, well-tested and optimized, that did one thing and did it very well. Systemd is often perceived as kind of a "betrayal" of that idea, as a big system that tries to do everything. A lot of mistrust comes from that criticism.

MereInterest2• 7 years ago

To add to that, small tools are beneficial to the ecosystem, because they can be replaced as needed. Systemd takes advantage of this to replace existing tools, but cannot itself be easily replaced.

dbtx• 7 years ago

I don't hate the USA, I hate fragile/secretly-already-broken promises and simply being lied to. systemd has a smell.

tempguy9999• 7 years ago

Every single previous discussion will cover this, pros and cons. Look in HN prior posts for your answer.

JackRabbitSlim2• 7 years ago

Let me ask the other end. What context do you have to compare it to what it replaced for any given use case? Can you tell me why its good? Can you tell me why its better? What problems it "fixes"?

Reasons to dislike systemd as a professional sys admin?

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402 - brick EFI based systems!

https://twitter.com/bitfield/status/736868148348063744?lang=... -- Systemd broke your very mature stable application like screen and tmux?

https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-15688 - Root a box on bootup with poison DHCP offers

I can keep going, but how are you doing on my questions?

baked_ziti4• 7 years ago

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402

Well that seemed needlessly contentious. What a shame.

forgottenpass• 7 years ago

Can someone share the reasons why systemd generate so much hate ?

A handful of improvements came tied to a bunch of new constraints and limitations that were not mandatory to get those improvements. This annoys the people who deal in those less visible areas and got the short end of the stick.

A large chunk of what systemd does could have been implemented without also sprawling it's tentacles and cross-dependencies into everything. Had they rolled out that featureset first and given the rest of the ecosystem some time to evolve in response adoption would have gone much smoother.

JohnFen5• 7 years ago

The log of OS components successfully starting up, as indicated by the green [ OK ], is what many people already identify systemd with. This made it a natural choice to derive our visual identity from.

That's an interesting comment, since the green [ OK ] was in use for bootup messages long before systemd was a thing. Nothing about it says "systemd" to me.

floren• 7 years ago

Hmm, I think you'll find that SystemD has existed since Linux sprang fully-formed from Lennart Poettering's forehead in 2010.

tannhaeuser2• 7 years ago

It's a tasteless trait of Linux bootup processes since long before SystemD's existence (on RH, SuSE at least), along with totally accessible blue-on-black (wtf) terminal colors.

jolmg5• 7 years ago

The comment is true for me, though. When I see a linux machine boot up and display a series of aligned [ OK ]s on the left-hand side, I know instantly that it's using systemd. I don't remember seeing [ OK ] with sysvinit, or at least not as uniformly.

int_19h• 7 years ago

It depended on the distro. Red Hat was using it for a long time, which I suspect is why systemd has it, too. Look here at 24:40 - this is Red Hat 9, released in 2003: https://youtu.be/QKtzfwyspU0?t=1300

Gentoo also did it from the get go, although it's not SysV.

JohnFen5• 7 years ago

I know instantly that it's using systemd.

Except you don't know really know that. It is objectively true that such usage was around for a long time before systemd in some major distros. I was seeing it at least 10 years ago, and I still see it on my systems that don't use systemd.

w0land• 7 years ago

No no no. I recall it from the firs linux distros i used, from 96 - 97, rpm based, both SuSE and RedHat.

TazeTSchnitzel• 7 years ago

No kernel patch to replace Tux with the systemd logo?

JackRabbitSlim2• 7 years ago

I had some time and for some reason it made me want to go see how boot images were actually done in the build system so...

https://pastebin.com/Ewe3UurF

not tested or proofed, must provide own logo_mark_beast.ppm of the logo

caiocaiocaio4• 7 years ago

What a waste of graphic design.

sergiomattei3• 7 years ago

What's the problem with it? It's minimal and displays an element iconic to their boot logs. It's just a logo.

You can like it or hate it, it's design. It's bound to be subjective. But why is it "a waste of graphic design"?

On a side note, this kind of unhelpful/non-constructive feedback isn't welcome on HN.

caiocaiocaio4• 7 years ago

I think it's great graphic design, wasted on a project that doesn't need branding or identity, and certainly doesn't need any more publicity than it already has. That logo could have been used on something that brought joy into people's lives.

tannhaeuser2• 7 years ago

Oh? I thought they went with Lennax [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21151433

atonse2• 7 years ago

I too don't get the systemd hate.

I like systemd precisely because the components are nicely integrated with each other. It seems like what we would design after learning the lessons of the last 15-20 years of how to manage a linux/unix machine.

I would assume more programmer types would like that the redundant "intelligence" that was placed in every init script is now gone, and replaced by a common core that allows you to declaratively say what's different about your daemon (or mount, timer, etc). I've also read that systemd has smart defaults, which is a great thing overall over init scripts.

I don't know if this is true, but I would also guess that it makes learning for newer people easier, since you have a similar paradigm and set of tools for your services, mounts, timers, etc.

It's consistent, which is great if you don't want to learn 20 different ways of doing things.

But then again, I also love the ideas from MS PowerShell and wish we had something like that in the *nix world, so we could pipe objects around rather than having to work with text and use awk, sed, cut, print, and all those things to keep legacy workflows around from decades ago. So maybe I'm just weird :)

MereInterest2• 7 years ago

When the default became breaking of screen, tmux, emacs --daemon, nohup, etc, I started disliking systemd. That the major distributions have overridden that default does not excuse systemd from having made that default.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11797075

fstephany• 7 years ago

You might be interested in Nushell[1]. One of their inspiration is PowerShell.

[1] https://book.nushell.sh/en/introduction

phendrenad2• 7 years ago

A precursor to Systemd spawning a commercial entity? Will we soon see Systemd Premium and Systemd Community editions?

Systemd Brand

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