Design for Hackers: Why You Hate Comic Sans

http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/why-you-hate-comic-sans/

by kadavy • 16 years ago

136 76 16 years ago

WillyF• 16 years ago

I have a friend who works at a well known management consulting firm. One of his clients insisted that every deck was done in Comic Sans. The client already had a bad reputation, and this quirk just made it worse.

binarymax• 16 years ago

Rookie mistake. Always have a no comic sans clause in your contracts. If the client asks to remove the clause during negotiations, run.

iwwr• 16 years ago

You seriously have a comic sans clause? Any chance of a quote of the legalese around that?

wccrawford• 16 years ago

He keeps saying it's an 'unattractive font', but the truth is, it became popular because so many people like it.

Here's the kicker: It's only 'unattractive' to people who know everything about typefaces. Nobody else cares, and they find it pleasing.

thestoicattack• 16 years ago

I don't know anything about typefaces, but I still think it's unattractive.

damoncali• 16 years ago

I think its more that people wanted a casual, playful font. And comic sans was the only option. Given a simlar, but better designed font, I think most people would choose it. Comic sans is strangely hard to read when you compare it to an actual comic book, for example.

But I agree, the hatred amongst designers is a bit strange, and there are obviously loads of people who want that style of font.

ugh3• 16 years ago

I don’t think people really like it, they pick it because their choices are overwhelming, confusing and subtle.

Comic Sans’ message is obvious, it’s easy to pick out in the long list of fonts in Word and has a memorable name. It’s obviously and painfully friendly and playful.

How are normal people supposed to be able to tell that a font like Georgia is also much friendlier than the angular and rickety Times New Roman while at the same time being entirely appropriate for nearly every imaginable formal setting (unlike Comic Sans)?

Friendly fonts exists on everyones’ PC, it’s just that Word’s font picker doesn’t allow you to tell the difference at a glance unless it’s really obvious like in the case of Comic Sans.

Using fonts is hard, that’s why most people who are not used to doing it and have no experience with it pick extreme fonts with obvious differences.

sp3323• 16 years ago

Nope, my mom uses it for her coursework as she's working toward her master's degree. She really does like it, she says it's more readable. We've all tried to convince her otherwise, but as long as her advisor doesn't mind, she'll keep using it.

dalore• 16 years ago

Is there a website/app/service that will ask you what features you want of a font and it will show you recommendations?

middlegeek• 16 years ago

Is this parody or your real view?

lionhearted• 16 years ago

> How are normal people supposed to be able to tell that a font like Georgia is also much friendlier than the angular and rickety Times New Roman while at the same time being entirely appropriate for nearly every imaginable formal setting (unlike Comic Sans)?

True story:

I call a designer friend of mine, and start to ask him, "I'm making a new website, and I was wondering what font would---"

He interrupts -- "Georgia."

Me: "I didn't tell you anything about the site yet."

Him: "Doesn't matter. Choose Georgia. You win."

I did. Later, a different designer friend of mine was emailing me, and writes in the PS, "By the way, I'm always thinking about beautiful the font on your site is, and then I realize it's Georgia. Ahhh, Georgia."

I laughed. Georgia for the win.

kadavy4• 15 years ago

> a font like Georgia is also much friendlier than the angular and rickety Times New Roman while at the same time being entirely appropriate for nearly every imaginable formal setting

You're echoing my thoughts nearly exactly.

Georgia is unparalleled as a Serif web font. One interesting thought about Times New Roman is that - since it was designed for the London Times - it was originally designed to use less paper. Why should we suffer the consequences when space is no longer a consideration?

dhimes• 15 years ago

I was just looking at this last night and came upon a source for the whole "I hate Comic Sans" meme.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11582548

Interesting, the folks credited with getting it started[1] were really concerned about its inappropriate use, not that it was otherwise objectionable.

[1]Holly and David Combs, who started the website bancomicsans.com

quantumhobbit• 16 years ago

I think that part of Comic Sans appeal to those who use it the fact that it offends "elitist" graphics designers. It is the Sarah Palin of fonts.

joe_the_user2• 16 years ago

Most people don't have any idea what offends graphics designers of any sort.

trustfundbaby• 16 years ago

No ... people don't find it pleasing.

They select it because when you fire up Microsoft word, you generally have limited Font options ... and its the only font that looks remotely interesting compared to Arial, Times New Roman, Georgia, Wingdings et al.

If you swapped out those starting fonts with other more interesting ones, Comic Sans use would plummet overnight.

joe_the_user2• 16 years ago

I don't think it's necessarily hated by all designers either. As I understand it, a good designer has many arrows in their quiver and uses them accordingly. In my very limited design research, I got the impression that Comic Sans could give an informal look that Helvetica would be hard-pressed to duplicate.

As far as I can see, this article would like "programming for designers: why you hate Visual Basic For Applications".

Of course, me not being a developer, there's a chance that he-who-speaks-for-all-developers will step in and slap me down.

digitallogic• 15 years ago

I speak for all developers, VBA is an abomination.

At least, I speak for all developers that have used it.

humblepie• 15 years ago

Also, Comic Sans is an easy choice because it's the third font listed on Windows.

igrekel• 15 years ago

Not sure they like it, I think they just don't mnid and its the only "less formal" option there is on a typical user's font list.

mxavier• 15 years ago

There are some subtle effects with Comic Sans that don't get considered, even by big companies.

For example, my old phone was a Samsung Blackjack II running Windows Mobile. Ignoring the hassle of having to download the upgrade to WM as a zip file and read the instructions in some poorly written txt file, the installer on the actual phone used multicolored comic sans. It was displaying hex digits all over the place and pretty much providing me, the user with all kinds of information I didn't understand or need to know. I'm a technical person so I'm not as put off by this at most but the instant I saw 3 different colored bits of Comic Sans text, I worried about the trustworthiness of this upgrade system. It turned out to be right as it took me several hours to get working properly after nearly bricking my phone.

fleitz• 15 years ago

I have to agree with that. And it some cases it helps unify and communicate the purpose of the app. I'm not using Comic Sans but rather 'Permanent Marker' on http://hipstaroid.com. It's a site for taking your Facebook pictures, and adding tags to them like you could do with old school polaroids.

brendanbell• 16 years ago

McSweeney's imagined monologue http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/monologues/15comicsans.html

defdac• 16 years ago

I love this piece. It gave me a hard kick in the face, and I kindof liked it =)

callahad• 16 years ago

Holy cow. Aside from the terrible kerning, Comic Sans actually looks pretty reasonable without anti-aliasing.

And even saying that makes me feel dirty. :(

rm445• 16 years ago

I think the small font size may be a factor too. Some of the 'yuk' factor of Comic Sans comes from seeing it too many times in poster sizes, usually in a range of colours too, with the large size accentuating the poor letter spacing demonstrated in the article.

Served up small, Comic Sans doesn't have quite the same feel of awfulness.

a1k0n• 15 years ago

All of the Microsoft fonts have extremely good hinting, and still look great (well, legible) when shrunk down to tiny pixel sizes. It's the main reason I chose Trebuchet last time I needed a video game font. Though there were a lot of better, more "thematic" choices I could have made, they looked like utter crap at small sizes.

RoyG• 16 years ago

I appreciate that Kadavy actually delves into the technical deficiencies of Comic Sans before he gets to the real heart of the matter at the end.

He misses the larger 'hacker design' point, however - unless you are an experienced designer, you are much better off picking a standard classic font, such as Helvetica, than trying to get all 'design-y' and picking some weird display font, in the mistaken belief that somehow this is adding 'personality' to your design.

kadavy4• 16 years ago

> unless you are an experienced designer, you are much better off picking a standard classic font, such as Helvetica

I'll definitely be making a similar recommendation in my book. Thanks for reading.

burgerbrain2• 16 years ago

I never really wondered why Everyone hates comic sans so much,that much is obvious. What I want explained is why everyone loves helvitica so much. It's just a plain but readible font, there are tons of those.

sp3323• 16 years ago

I don't know how to link to a piece of a TED talk, so http://www.ted.com/talks/paula_scher_gets_serious.html

The whole talk is good, but around 4:45 she starts talking about her cover design for books and music, and eventaully expands into covering buildings with words. The first thing she mentions is how much she hates Helvetica :-)

tel2• 16 years ago

Not everybody loves Helvetica. It's pretty boring, seriously overused, and in its own way tacky. That said, it has historical value. Watch the movie Helvetica for more details, but the short of it is that it was introduced during that time the author speaks of where people were just starting to see the potential of graphic design. You'd hire a fancy new designer to come in and revitalize your company's letterhead and they'd present you with a blank, brilliantly white sheet of paper with your company's name in Helvetica. It was stark, amazing, totally lifeless, but just so New it was easy to buy in.

Then add in that for all Helvetica's faults, it is amazingly versatile and readable. It is absolutely well designed for it's somewhat sterile purposes and therefore easy to paste up everywhere. Couple that with an air of Newness and, ironically, personalization of hiring your own print designer and next thing you know it's everywhere wnd beloved.

There's a lot more to the story, of course, but it all turns to the historical value of Helvetica being the font that a new wave of popular design championed. It was there when people wanted and needed it.

(It's also worth mentioning it's Swiss heritage and how often the relatively unique Swiss design aesthetic gets conflated with cries for simplicity, modernity, and "clean". All deserved, sure, but they certainly understate the contribution of valuing space and openness that seems to be the heart of that movement, to me. I've often heard that their design is inspired by the openness of the Swiss landscapes. Unique, beautiful, but hardly the Final Word in design aesthetics.)

kadavy4• 15 years ago

Personally, I actually don't like Helvetica. It produces a rough texture, and I don't feel that the forms are harmonious. I adore Akzidenz Grotesk (the predecessor of Helvetica), but it's much less common.

I concede, however, that Helvetica really is an excellently readable and anonymous font.

tmgrhm• 15 years ago

I really like Helvetica, although I also really like Akzidenz (perhaps more). I'm not entirely sure why, but Akzidenz seems to be used a lot in German print and often looks downright gorgeous when paired with a good font for copy. For example, Fluter has some nice design… [example (PDF)](http://www.fluter.de/heftpdf/issue95/artikel9084/pdf_article...).

carols10cents• 15 years ago

helvetica is the font of the establishment! resist, hackers!

skermes• 16 years ago

People with dyslexia apparently find Comic Sans substantially easier to read than many other common computer fonts: http://www.dyslexic.com/fonts

It would be interesting to have something similar to CSS media queries for screen size for accessibility flags. Making it easier to change fonts for dyslexic people or color schemes for colorblind people would be great.

jacobolus2• 16 years ago

Your summary is much more emphatic (“people”; “substantially easier”) than any of the research I’ve seen.

As for color schemes: any scheme which makes a website unreadable by the color blind will make it mostly unreadable by everyone else, too: human vision distinguishes shapes and details mainly via lightness contrast.

christopherslee2• 16 years ago

The nerd and wannabe designer in me was fascinated by reading the article, but I struggled with the takeaways other than a detailed reason to "not use comic sans" (which I think I've been able to do post 1997.)

Are there more conclusions in the article that I should apply to my designs beyond the typography choice?

tel2• 16 years ago

Consiration of text weight translates directly to design weight all across. Text is meant to be read, therefore even weight helps the eye move quickly, smoothly across it like a well-paved road. This might not be the goal you're shooting for in a page design though!

Aliasing and antialiasing is a big deal with web design as well. Oftentimes making your designs match the pixel grid will render them uniquely sharp allowing smaller details to be visible. If you miss the pixel grid you'll deal with antialiasing tech which will induce a subtle blur. Either effect may be desirable.

Finally, it's always worth refreshing the value of detail in design. The pixel level comparison of Garamond, Helvetica, and Comic Sans can be inspiration for the level of detail required to make a truly lively design.

christopherslee2• 15 years ago

Thanks, that sounds so well thought out and reinforces to me that there's a lot I need to learn.

But at the same time, I barely understand what you wrote :(

tintin• 15 years ago

A lot of people forget text is also interaction and communication. The soft forms of Comic Sans communicate a soft voice, a party feeling, an informal tone. Font's like Helvetica are formal, almost cold, just to inform you without any emotion. So using a font like Helvetica is more suitable for business. But it's bullshit to hate Comic Sans. It's just a different font.

bitwize• 16 years ago

Comic Sans is despised precisely because middle-aged, middle-class moms love it. It's not great, but it's not as terrible as the design snobs, itching to deploy their portfolio of expensive Zapf typefaces, are making it out to be.

You want a bad font? Try the garbage that MTV used for titling in the mid-90s. They stopped using nice, clean Kabel for music video lower thirds and started using this uneven-baseline, uneven-stroke-width trash font.

The 90s sucked in so many ways...

jacobolus2• 16 years ago

I don’t think aliased 12px Comic Sans (a heavily hinted font, with large x-height and even strokes, designed explicitly for the screen) can fairly be compared with whatever Garamond variant he flashed on screen (a font intended for use with high-resolution printing on paper, by appearances not at all hinted, and maybe even a type 1 font). A reasonable comparison would be to Verdana or Georgia, which would nicely show the Comic Sans version to be dramatically worse looking.

knowaveragejoe• 16 years ago

I agree that comic sans is the wrong choice of font in most applications, both from a legitimacy and readability standpoint. However, if you're into game development, I've discovered no better font for in-game text. Almost all other popular fonts looks out of place in a game.

Sindisil• 15 years ago

I agree. I'd love to hear of a readily available font that has similar feel.

In games, I occasionally use a font called Galette Medium, but it has a decidedly different feel.

nowarninglabel• 16 years ago

Thank you, this was a very convincing statement on a subject that I usually cannot find a solid answer to. I have queried quite a few designers on Comic Sans as to why they hated it. Most of the time the answer is "Cause it sucks". Sometimes the answer is "because it is used everywhere". However, in terms of the web, there are a couple of surveys showing the usage of Comic Sans is pretty far down the list. Why don't design schools teach designers how to articulate why something is bad? Even if the answer is "because it evokes a negative emotional response" should be followed up with some description of the kind of emotion it invokes and hard data.

aneth• 16 years ago

Comic sans is popular because it is unpretentious, disarming, casual, and playful - it looks a bit childish, messy, and handwritten. It's interesting to read why designers don't like it, but they are completely wrong to "hate" it or advocate that people stop using it. Were comic sans "properly" designed, it would likely look overly clean and pretentious, the opposite of the effect people use it for.

corin_• 16 years ago

Can't help but link to an old favourite picture of mine, seems appropriate.

http://www.corincole.com/misc/random_pics/comicsans.jpg

edit: in case it's ambiguous, 'mine' refers to it being my favourite, not my photo

jamesbritt• 15 years ago

Funny that someone feels fit to critique the use of a particular font, but has no clue how to use proper capitalization.

Now I'm imagining a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style, all in Comic Sans.

simias2• 16 years ago

This article is very interesting, but as a comic sans hater myself, I don't think it's really the technical details of the typography that are at the root of my loathing.

I have the same hopeless feeling when I receive a letter in comic sans as when my boss's assistant sends me an email with a 1Mo gif saying "happy new year" or when I see a billboard ad where the pixels are 10cm wide because someone thought resizing the 100x100px jpg in MS paint would do the trick. Or, more extreme, when I found this website yesterday: http://taxis75.fr/ .

The annoying part is that it looks unprofessional, and out of place. It makes me think the person didn't even try, didn't even take 2 seconds to contemplate the result of their "work" and realize what a mess it is. As someone who tries to be perfectionist, not to overlook the details; seeing people making such a terrible work and getting away with it is a bit offensive. And when I receive a letter or a service note written in comic sans, I feel it's disrespectful.

scott_s2• 16 years ago

> I don't think it's really the technical details of the typography that are at the root of my loathing.

> The annoying part is that it looks unprofessional, and out of place.

I submit that the reason behind sentence two are the technical details mentioned in sentence one.

simias2• 15 years ago

Well, it's designed to be a "comics" font, it doesn't really try to hide it. It's by design, not a technical failure. The name of the font alone should tell anyone it's a no-go for any serious communication.

andrewl• 16 years ago

Does anybody know what font Larry Gonick uses in his "Cartoon Guide to..." books? It's informal and cartoonish, but it doesn't bother me (in the context of Gonick's books). I wouldn't want to read a novel in it.

jcl• 15 years ago

It is a custom font based on his own handwriting.

http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/geek-of-the-week/larry-go...

If you're looking for comic book fonts, Blambot has some nice ones, used throughout the industry.

MartinCron• 15 years ago

The "Comic Life" app ships with a few great handwriting fonts, GigitalStrip is my favorite. Worth checking out.

JacobAldridge• 16 years ago

For obvious reasons, I'm reminded of this marvellous (true) story about recognising, rewarding, and hating Comic Sans - http://www.johnbraine.com/2010/10/the-king-of-comic-sans.htm...

In actual fact, I support the continuation of Comic Sans solely so I can share that link / story with people.

sp3323• 15 years ago

I know, I post this on EVERY Comic Sans thread. But, it's still awesome, so I'll post it again. The Best Comic Sans Story Ever: http://www.metafilter.com/86695/I-thought-I-was-the-only-one...

kadavy4• 15 years ago

I hadn't seen that before - it's moving and funny at the same time. Thanks for that :)

cpeterso2• 15 years ago

Because what's a sans face without a serif? Introducing Comic Serif!

Download: http://www.dafont.com/hvd-comic-serif.font

Real life examples: http://www.idsgn.org/posts/comic-sans-comic-serif/

FYI: This is a real font, though these sites have some NSFW language.

philh• 15 years ago

>When aliased at 12px, Comic Sans is more readable than Garamond.

It's also bigger. Why not increase the Garamond size until it fits the same amount of text in the box?

I could believe that comic sans is still more readable, but this doesn't seem a fair comparison.

(For that matter, what does "12px" even mean, when one font seems to be larger than the other in both x and y directions?)

thristian• 15 years ago

Font measurements are given in terms of the "em square", a notional square inside which each glyph sits (this is why the CSS "em" unit has "1em" equalling "the current font size"). A 12px font should have each glyph fit within the same 12×12px square. Exactly where the characters are drawn in that square, and at what relative size, is up to the designer - but usually they're drawn so that the em covers the distance from the bottom of lower-case descenders (j, p, q, y) to the top of ascenders (b, d, k, l).

Historically, in the days when a "font" meant "a set of metal blocks of uniform size with a glyph engraved on the end of each one", the "font size" was the height of each block of metal, which was an important thing to know when all the metal blocks used to set a page of type had to physically sit next to each other.

Design for Hackers: Why You Hate Comic Sans

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