Should employees buy their own computer?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12181570

by swombat • 16 years ago

44 60 16 years ago

bbc.co.uk

nickolai2• 16 years ago

First thought : if only the shop I work at did this .. I could use a linux laptop.

I wonder if people get to chose their OS under this scheme?

tomjen3• 16 years ago

At least one of the places required you to use "standard" Mcfee.

So properly not.

nickolai2• 16 years ago

Thought so.

Double-checking still left me with some (tiny bit of) hope : http://www.mcafee.com/us/products/virusscan-enterprise-for-l...

ghaff3• 16 years ago

It really depends on the IT department and which applications you need to run. If everything you need to access is through a Web interface (perhaps over a VPN) then, policy permitting, there's no technical reason that you can't use pretty much any endpoint device you want that supports the necessary Web standards--and possibly VPN client.

Generally speaking, formal BYOPC programs are more restrictive but in lots of high tech companies, people use a variety of their own gear.

rmc2• 16 years ago

As far as I'm concerned that's a deal breaker. Dont tell me that I have to pay for my own laptop and then mandate what OS I run. You want to control what OS, you pay for it.

wccrawford• 16 years ago

So if I can't afford to buy my own high-end computer, I have to use one of the loaners from work. And those loaners won't be anywhere near as nice as the ones that people have bought.

So now my job performance depends on how much money I'm willing to spend on products that are for the company's benefit. If I'm not willing to cough up enough dough, I won't get good reviews or raises. I might even be fired for under-performing!

Yeah, this sounds like a great idea... If you want to invite lawsuits.

Having said that, I bring my own mouse and keyboard to work. I didn't ask, I just did it. The comfort was worth more to me than it was to them, apparently.

techsupporter• 16 years ago

The majority of applications being remotely virtualized in this manner are/will be general business applications--word processor, spreadsheet, etc--or line of business applications such as CRM or ticket management systems. These don't need much horsepower, and, in the case of Citrix-based application virtualization, can run on the providing server ("streamed") or have the bits delivered locally to the client for it to execute. I think Microsoft's App-V (SoftGrid) works the same way, but I'm unsure if it does streaming or just packaged delivery. Either way, a pool laptop need not be that powerful to "keep up with the Jonses'" who bought their own.

Splines2• 16 years ago

From what I've seen, App-V is on-demand packaged delivery. If you access a binary and it's not on your system (or needs to be updated), it'll download then execute locally.

adestefan• 16 years ago

Most tradesmen are required to provide their own tools. I can see the arguments about security holding this back, but it's not an unprecedented idea.

crander• 16 years ago

Tools for developers and designers is a big point. Especially with new hires.

Ten years ago joining a major corporation gave you access to resources you didn't have on your own. Exchange was better than Yahoo mail. The T20 cost so much almost no one would buy it for personal use.

Today when student graduate they are often used to and already own Mac laptops or high-end PCs and are using Google services. They can lose productivity going from these (cloud) consumer to enterprise technology systems.

I recommend the Gartner report "Gartner_Report_BYOC_checklist.pdf" on BYOC.

sliverstorm• 16 years ago

Indeed, and if your job actually requires a high-end computer you're probably getting paid well enough to afford one.

sudont• 16 years ago

Most tradesmen have leeway in buying the tools that suit them best. This doesn't work in a corporation, as the amount of work IT would have to do to support every different computer that wanders in would be insane. Look at a college that has this laptop purchase program: students get a choice between Mac and a Dell laptop, and unless you're a fine-arts major you don't get the Mac option.

More likely, employees would be forced to buy the one computer that IT specifies. And, knowing how much VB.NET code is running out there now, it'll end up being a top-of-the-line enterprise Dell laptop, crippled with XP and all of their network policies.

Somebody who's forced to buy a laptop and then give all control away won't be a happy body.

maxawaytoolong• 16 years ago

Tradesmen provide their own tools if they are independently employed. If they are employed directly through a big firm, the firm often buys all their equipment for them, including a loaner truck and cell phone.

tedunangst3• 16 years ago

If you're in the kind of job where your job performance will be substantially impacted by the newness of your computer, you should also be earning enough to afford a new computer considerably sooner than your first performance review.

Leynos2• 16 years ago

There are various reasons why that may not be the case. For example, the employee may have had the misfortune of recently having been made redundant and subsequently spent their savings and accumulated debt whilst searching for a new job.

gaius2• 16 years ago

As I say below, this is simply not true... Have a look at what designers, junior architects, people doing 3D modeling e.g. for movies, people retouching photos for print, etc actually get paid.

If anything, the opposite is true... As a programmer, I can tell you I could get a lot done with not much power, and I say this having developed professionally on a SPARC 10 (look up the specs, and I don't mean an Ultra 10).

ghaff3• 16 years ago

This sounds a bit dramatic given that laptop computers fully capable of running typical business applications are no more than $1K these days (and can be quite a bit less). There are lots of things you may need to (or be advantaged by) spending money on depending on the job. For example, if you're in a sales job in certain industries, you'll need to spend quite a bit of money on clothing (suits, etc.). Relatively few companies supply cell phones today, although some may pay for data plans. Maybe commuting to your job is the only reason you need a car.

There are certainly complexities to bring-your-own-PC programs, especially with less technically savvy users, but the personal cost aspect isn't really one of them. (Especially given that most such programs have a subsidy.)

FluidDjango• 16 years ago

Note the alternative presented: "Citrix gives staff a stipend and they then buy the computer of their choice."

That would work for me (as an employee).

However, if I ran a despotic company where employees were apt to act out against "the man" I'd be pretty nervous about letting Pandora bring in her own box, so to speak.

fleitz• 16 years ago

When I worked as an employee I felt my job performance was hampered by the company policy of what went into the computers. (eg. they were crap). I swapped out just about every component I could in those machines, some funded by the company, some funded personally.

Most professionals are expected to maintain their own tools.

Most mechanics have their own tools, having the tools you like to use at your disposal is essential to doing a good job. The tools are also far more expensive than a computer.

Personally, I would have loved to be able to bring my own computer to work and would have allowed me to drop the hassle of trying to hide the improvements I was making to their dev machine.

Buying your own computer in dev is kind of like a lawyer buying his own suits. It may affect his job if he doesn't look sharp. There are lots of places to work and if the place you work at doesn't recognize the additional productivity you have gained from buying good tools then perhaps it is not the place one should work.

lylejohnson• 16 years ago

At my job I had the choice of the company buying me a Windows-based Dell notebook, or just using my own personal MacBook Pro that I paid for; I chose the latter. Sometimes I get a little riled up about the fact that they didn't offer to reimburse me for the expense, but on the other hand I'm glad that I wasn't forced to use the same tools everyone else does.

T-hawk• 16 years ago

Most professionals have and maintain their own tools -- but tools in most other professions if poorly secured can't emit malware that sabotages everybody else's tools.

mturmon• 16 years ago

Machinists don't maintain their own lathes.

My point is, I think there a lot of examples on both sides.

A reasonable company should not argue about a $1.5K versus $3K laptop when they're paying so much more for salary, benefits, and overhead for the person using the system. At my workplace these total around $250K-$280K per person per year.

gcheong2• 16 years ago

An alternative way to do this is for you to go buy your choice of equipment then get reimbursed by the company for the expense within a reasonable limit. I imagine this keeps it as a pre-tax expense for the company as well. One could argue that how it is now it's still "your" money that gets spent anyway since you need a computer to work - it's just that the company spends it for you and gives you no choice in the matter.

SoftwareMaven• 16 years ago

I worked at a company that tried this in the late nineties. They ran afoul tax and accounting problems, since it wasn't seen as a business expense but rather more like a bonus since you kept the hardware if you left the company.

acconrad• 16 years ago

You know you can just ask your company for ergonomic hardware, right? Companies have ergonomics guides and have to abide by them. If you have an uncomfortable chair, or a keyboard/mouse that brings about early signs of carpel tunnel, you have the right to request a new keyboard/mouse at the expense of the company. It's in the company's best interest to avoid (at best) paying long-term disability from you being injured and (at worst) a lawsuit for providing tools that injure you on the job and refusing to help you alleviate the pain.

joeguilmette2• 16 years ago

I bought a new MacBook Air on my own dime for company use. Beats the hell out of a 3 y/o $400 frankenbox running XP. Worth every penny.

beoba• 16 years ago

While we're at it, let's start storing customer data on these personal machines. What could possibly go wrong?

ghaff3• 16 years ago

Hardly a unique problem to using personal devices. Also from the article:

"The design that we implemented was that no data or access to the device was enabled locally, so you can plug in your USB but it would not be registered when you have a Citrix connection."

To take another example of forcing security in a client device. I have push email from the office to my iPhone but it's implemented in such a way that forces using a passcode to access the iPhone.

timrobinson• 16 years ago

This isn't "bring your own computer", but "use your own computer to connect remotely and access the firm's computer". The data's still held inside the firm and the employee's PC isn't doing anything more than running a web browser.

The first few paragraphs miss the point, though: they imply that this kind of remote access is quicker if you're using a brand new laptop than some old Windows XP PC.

iwwr2• 16 years ago

If the firm is also running the VMs, it makes no sense to ask the employee to bring anything but K/V/M.

trotsky2• 16 years ago

Seems to be an advertisement for Citrix VDI and not legitimate news.

jawee• 16 years ago

The caption on the image of the iPad is misleading. If I´m not mistaken, virtualisation is not permitted on iPads even if they were capable; the picture seems to be illustrating remote desktop.

trotsky2• 16 years ago

That's the case for all examples here - they are virtualizing your "desktop" on a server and all you're doing is remoting in. AKA thin client aka what the industry has been trying to sell for 20 years. Pretty much the same as: http://www.vmware.com/products/view/

mynegation• 16 years ago

One advantage of unified computer inventory is faster and cheaper service. Software installation tend to be much easier when hardware is unified as well. BYOC is a worst nightmare of system administrators and technicians.

motters2• 16 years ago

I think the idea here is to get rid of in-house sysadmins as much as possible and rely upon an outsourced IT support contract.

  "Staff taking advantage of the scheme must buy a three-year service contract."

Splines2• 16 years ago

As long as you don't do cancer research, you'll be fine.

motters2• 16 years ago

I notice the gratuitous inclusion of a silly quote about tablets (BYOT). Using your own hardware is ok, provided that the company is prepared to accept any security issues which could arise from that.

iwwr2• 16 years ago

"One of the prerequisites is to have a standard McAfee anti-virus installed on the device."

Forgive me while I laugh at this. If an employee's computer is compromised, the company VMs running inside it are vulnerable. It makes no difference that the connection is secure if one endpoint is not.

The safe way to do it is to hand the employee a locked down device strictly for work.

An alternative, maybe, is to hand them a locked hypervisor which allows them to run personal, alongside work VMs (but not allow them to install anything at the same level as the hypervisor (no dual-booting)).

Edit: Thinking about this, the company may issue USB secure tokens linked to a truecrypt drive. The employee would dual-boot either into the work environment (locked down) or a personal environment, with the warning that the token must never be connected in the personal environment.

thorax• 16 years ago

Not sure if you already knew about this and are just joking, but the locked hypervisor approach is actually one that Citrix (mentioned in the article) is touting.. their XenClient stuff does that.

stuaxo• 16 years ago

Hell no.

tedunangst3• 16 years ago

Related issue: employees issued company laptops tend to drop them, forget them in starbucks, leave them in cabs, and generally lose them fairly frequently when the company replaces them. If the company only pays for a replacement every 18-24 months, the employees' memory suddenly and quite drastically improves. Almost like a shot of mega-ginkgo.

jtbigwoo• 16 years ago

For a while, I worked at a company that had a "lose your laptop and get fired" policy. They backed down after less than a year, but it definitely caused me to think twice about where I stored my laptop at home and on the road.

rmc2• 16 years ago

I've working in small tech companies and have used my personal laptop as a work machine, so in theory I'm not opposed to it. But if you want to mandate it, I get to choose the OS and I get root.

slippytoad• 16 years ago

I've been using my own Mac at work for the last 4 years, at 3 different companies (granted, one of them was my own startup). The caveat is you have to support yourself, which is fine by me. I get to use the environment I'm most comfortable in and I don't have to deal with crappy Windows updates, virus or Outlook headaches.

cypherdog• 16 years ago

I'm nearly in the same boat. I've been at the same company for some time now and started bringing my personal macbook to work to code on. After awhile, I was so productive they bought me a one for work use. However in a 1000+ person company I'm the only one on a Mac, but I also have to do my own support.

barrkel• 16 years ago

I don't think employees should buy their own computer, but having the freedom to do so is liberating. However, I don't think it fits very well into an argument for remote desktop systems. That's more to do with the user being remote from work than having their own computer.

I work remotely, from home, using my own hardware. That means I have administrative access, an SSD, 12GB of memory, overclocked i7 CPU, etc., which all adds up to a machine that can build our source tree faster than the build servers that are "optimized" for it by IT. When I visit base, co-workers are amazed at my build times; usually less than 50% of the time on their workstations.

Most of these advantages would be negated by using a remote desktop / app solution, but then, the advantages may be largely specific to certain kinds of workloads.

_b8r02• 16 years ago

For the scenario described this is a security nightmare. Instead of having to expend a lot of effort targeting your organisation, profiling your defences and attempting to bypass your security (doable but will require some effort in many cases) I now just have to attack your personal email, get you to click on a link to my attack, compromise your box, install a keylogger then route my terminal services/citrix ica connection through your desktop and logon with your credentials to get in.

Nice try, Citrix PR Company.

speleding2• 16 years ago

Any company of a reasonable size has lots of consultants walking around, all with their own laptop, and sensitive company information on them. Giving people their own laptop to manage is really not much different.

_b8r02• 16 years ago

I disagree with regards to how different it is. Those consultants are a relatively small proportion of the estate of such companies. Furthermore companies of sufficient size to have permanent levels of consultants connected to their internal networks and running their data have fairly nasty clauses mandating security requirements for said laptops to connect to their networks, with significant consequences for failure (both for the individual and supplier).

The consultants walking around with their own laptops generally have internally mandated compliance requirements for things like encryption, host firewalls and antivirus.

speleding2• 16 years ago

We've done something like this at my previous company. The lesson I learned was that it works really well for some staff but that it goes poorly for the non-technically inclined.

We ended up having a scaled down IT services for the "poets" and the techies could use their own thing. That worked well and people were happy, although security was an ongoing debate since laptops get stolen a lot and people don't tend to put encryption on anything unless you force them to. We ended up doing "spot checks" on various occasions to check if backups/etc, were up to scratch.

After I left new management was too worried about security and brought it back in house (although we'd never had serious incidents). The dissatisfaction that caused among employees was huge, it's really much harder to give up freedom than if you've never had it in the first place.

localhost3000• 16 years ago

I worked for a startup that made owning / bringing a laptop to the office a requirement of employment. We had one incredibly awkward incident in which we hired a kid without making this rule clear to him. He showed up for work on day one empty handed, was called into our founder's office, left ten minutes later and never came back. It was a bad idea with even worse implementation. Often times our founders wouldn't mention this requirement in the interview. "You got the jobs! Congrats! Oh, and by the way..." It was terrible and the company failed.

beamso• 16 years ago

While I don't believe that employees need to buy their own computer, I've not hesitated to buy a notebook and use it for work if I thought it necessary. When I started at my current workplace, I didn't realise that the employer provided PCs were XP machines and that developers didn't get admin access. After a few weeks it was too frustrating to not get a notebook and use it at work.

erik_landerholm• 16 years ago

If you work for a technology company and they make you use a 5 year old computer...time to go work somewhere else.

drallison• 16 years ago

An employee using their own computer presets all sorts of liabilities and risks both to the employee and the employer. The decision needs to be made in consultation with a qualified lawyer. It presents an intellectual property and security nightmare.

Should employees buy their own computer?

Related Stories