And suddenly, you're hip

http://blogs.perl.org/users/su-shee/2011/01/and-suddenly-youre-hip.html

by Phra • 16 years ago

182 142 16 years ago

blogs.perl.org

Communication skills correlate with social standing. News at 11.

lwhi8• 16 years ago

Sure, maybe the idea is obvious - I suppose the interesting question is 'how can a transformation occur?', which is something the article tries to address.

lwhi8• 16 years ago

Marketing re-energised the web after the period of downtime after the dot-com crash (O'Reilly and Web 2.0), I'm sure it could similarly re-energise Perl.

EDIT: If Web 2.0 wasn't a well crafted marketing campaign I don't know what is.

julius_geezer• 16 years ago

Now your edit is a phrase that would make a great tee shirt!

msy• 16 years ago

Thing is, while both Ruby & Vim have been driven by what she's describing she neatly sidestepped why those movements got started in the first place. Ruby gained huge traction primarily via Rails because working on PHP is unenjoyable to many and Ruby is a really pleasant language to work with. Vim's recent resurgence can largely be traced to development of Textmate grinding to a complete halt. Textmate's rise a few years ago was due to BBEdit failing to evolve. Git beats seven shades of shit out of SVN. Erlang provides a proven answer to concurrency issues. Javascript is the only choice for the ever more important front-end side of web development. Each of these shifts of development momentum have rational, logical underpinnings.

The buzz, the screen casts and other errata are a consequence of a lot of people making the same logical, reasoned choice and talking about it in public. I cannot think of anything that's changed in Perl that'd justify any such interest. I admit that may be my ignorance. Making sexy screencasts might get a little traffic but you can't astroturf wave of developer momentum with them.

jsrn5• 16 years ago

    > Vim's recent resurgence can largely be traced
    > to development of Textmate grinding to a complete
    > halt.

makes sense - but then why didn't Emacs see an equivalent resurgence (although personally I think Emacs did see a resurgence, not because of Textmate but because of Org Mode).

    > Git beats seven shades of shit out of SVN.

you could argue the same for Mercurial (or darcs, for that matter). But Git had the better initial marketing, Github, the Ruby folks used it etc.

    > I cannot think of anything that's changed in Perl
    > that'd justify any such interest.

hm, CPAN (and the arguably failed attempts to copy it by other language communities), Moose, MooseX::Declare, Devel::REPL, Dancer, Mojolicious, Task::Kensho, ...

mechanical_fish• 16 years ago

I think emacs did see a similar resurgance, for the same reason that vim has. We just each tend to notice different resurgances depending on which editor we use...

And here's some constructive criticism for the aspiring Perl advocate: Stop talking in acronyms and obscure library names. What the hell is Moose and what real world problem does it solve significantly better than the popular alternatives?

Same for CPAN, frankly. Most people younger than me don't get it when you name-check CPAN. What does that stand for?Give me a killer app for CPAN, preferably one that people care about.

Note that the parent post speaks in use cases: Ruby is for problem X, Erlang is for problem Y, JavaScript is for problem Z. What is Perl for, and why won't Ruby work just as well?

tsuraan2• 16 years ago

CPAN (and the arguably failed attempts to copy it by other language communities)

I haven't used perl, but I do use ruby and I'm learning haskell. What does CPAN do that make rubygems and cabal failures? They both work really well from what I can see (especially cabal), but since I don't know perl, my POV is obviously limited. What am I missing out on?

lwhi8• 16 years ago

It's not nice to think that marketing shapes the way we see the world - but it does.

Programmers are just likely to want to follow fashions as tweens - it's just that they're not so likely to admit it.

EDIT: (we're) not so likely to admit it.

Su-Shee5• 16 years ago

Sure, there are plenty of reasons of the whys and whens - on the other hand, we could easily ask "why didn't everyone choose Emacs when textmate's development came to a halt" or "Why didn't people choose Python as their web language of choice when they didn't like PHP" or "Why not Bazaar instead of SVN" or why Ryan Dahl chose JavaScript as a base language for Node.js and not any of Python, Ruby, Perl, Scheme, Lisp or Lua - but JavaScript - and so on. (As others already pointed out below so I'm summing this up in one sentence here..) Thankfully we have plenty of options to choose from nowadays.

And yet I'm still convinced that the choice of Git over Bazaar has something to do with the smoothness of Github and with "It's from Linus!", the choice of Ruby/RoR with the image 37signals so nicely projects, that JavaScript's recent rise and massive change in perception comes thanks to Douglas Crockford and Erlang would have probably stayed in its niche if it wasn't for CouchDB.

So I was surprised and amazed by the change in perception of Vim over the last year and therefore I blogged about it.

And yes, along your examples Perl faced a similar situation around 2000 (so thanks for the well chosen examples) and decided to do Perl 6 to re-ignite the Perl spark. (Let's set aside for a moment wether or not it worked and what happened after that and boy am I sure the second I hit the submit button people will _exactly_ totally get into this subject.. ;)

I also didn't ask wether or not one really wants the success of the masses or if it might be a good thing to stay in a well-defined niche with a community of your choice, creating your own culture - as for example shows the Linux distribution Slackware very happily year by year and to a great satisfaction of its users.

I also didn't mention how much it might have to do with the age of developers, wether some changes plainly might be a generation thing of "first generation web developers" and "second generation web developers" or how much Apple's regained success does play into all that.

But as we can see within the comments below, old Perl cliches aren't really dead and get repeated all over wether or not the subject was Perl's marketing and not Perl's qualities (or the perceived lack thereof...)

Or maybe we all get kicked our asses by Lisp next year - thanks to Peter Seibel's Practical Lisp Programming book or "Land of Lisp" and of course Paul Graham and Emacs wins all over. ;)

seanalltogether• 16 years ago

Predictably Irrational talks about what you are describing here. You see, despite many of these technologies having a smaller install base, what they have done is create a new anchor in technology, which allows them to monopolize the conversation. The iPhone and Rails are the most significant anchors within the past 5 years. You can't make Perl popular by acting like rock stars and making videos on youtube, you can only making Perl popular by creating a new technological anchor for others to hook themselves to.

neutronicus• 16 years ago

I chose emacs when Textmate stopped getting updated. The joke page registered at textmate2.com redirects to emacs, and a most of the people harassing Allan on his blog a couple years ago were saying they'd switched to emacs.

I think it might just be that emacs doesn't lend itself to screencasts or golf quite as much as vim.

zby• 16 years ago

I think there still was one good point in the parent comment that you did not address. If screencast were not the reason of RoR popularity but it's consequence, then maybe we should not lose too much time on making screencasts and instead concentrate on some other things? I have to attest that screencasting does require enormous amounts of time, especially if you try to do that on Linux where the tools break every 5 minutes and you need to make manual savepoints to keep with moving ahead with your work. Even though it was also very captivating and quite entertaining.

alinajaf• 16 years ago

I may be a rare case, but I honestly started using git and vim in particular long before the heaps of hype that built up around the tools, before I even started reading HN actually.

I found the tools I went with to be more intuitive and easier to learn than the others. When tools are legitimately pleasurable to use, developers talk about them, and 'hype' builds up.

alttab• 16 years ago

The clarity of your writing makes this point very clear.

cturner• 16 years ago

    where btw is A NICE HIP FEMALE PHRASE I COULD PRINT
    ON A SHIRT?

I'm a vim ballerina!

    "we" are literally invisible to the bigger public, not
    matter how much CPAN grows and no matter how much #perl
    is the biggest IRC channel on freenode.

Secret societies are cool.

lwhi8• 16 years ago

Here's an idea -> bring visitors to the perl.org front-page directly to #perl freenode channel, via a JS IRC client.

Let them speak directly with core users from the very start.

kentnl7• 16 years ago

Nice idea, but what tends to happen is this:

    -- User1235 has joined #perl --
    user1235> PERL SUCKS 111!!!11!!1!!11!!
    -- Chanserv set mode +o mst --
    -- user1235 was kicked ( troll ) --

The people who are honestly interested tend not to need the door shown to them, and people who aren't interested can't be convinced by such tactics.

rbxbx• 16 years ago

I don't see why females can't be ninjas and rockstars, or are these things just not as appealing to the "fairer sex"?

michaelchisari• 16 years ago

I thought this part of the essay was strange, because they sure as hell can be. Courtney Love, Brody Dalle, Joan Jett.

Not to mention: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunoichi

mhd• 16 years ago

I don't know, but being a "Perl rockstar" would probably evoke a more "prog rock" feel, not exactly the best target if you aim for sex appeal.

(NB: I do like both Perl and prog rock, so I personally wouldn't have problems with that.)

pwpwp3• 16 years ago

Nice article, although I'd fear a "Project for a New Perl Century". If there were an International Criminal Court for Programmer Rights, Perl should be the first language tried for crimes against programmerdom.

sigzero5• 16 years ago

Any "crimes" were the fault of the programmer and not the language. Period. End of story.

varjag2• 16 years ago

Also, Ruby is a better language than Perl. No amount of campaigning will change that.

(Before anyone follows-up with the usual "the right tool for the job", it's not the point here. There are good screwdrivers and bad screwdrivers).

lwhi8• 16 years ago

There are also phillips head, straight edge and torx :)

varjag2• 16 years ago

Each come in good and bad variety.

nzmsv• 16 years ago

There is also Robertson, which is superior to Philips, but lost due to poor marketing :)

jsrn5• 16 years ago

    > Also, Ruby is a better language than Perl.

"Perl is the syntax, CPAN is the language"

lwhi8• 16 years ago

What's the fastest way to learn about the benefits of SPAN/Perl?

lsc2• 16 years ago

in terms of stability? really?

I hear this a lot about Python. And I know a little bit about Python; I know less about ruby. But the thing of it is, from a SysAdmin perspective, Python is where Perl was in 2000. In 2000, you had differing versions of perl that were close enough to step on oneanother, but still so incompatible that you had to maintain one version of perl for your base OS tools, and usually another version of perl for every major application you used.

Perl has stabilized to the point where this is no longer a problem. I can run nearly everything on system perl without worrying about it. Python, on the other hand, I've had to wrangle with many RHEL systems that have two versions of python (one, because the RHEL base system requires a staggeringly ancient version of python, and then the other for the application the server was running.)

Python just isn't "done" in the way perl is. In five or ten years, sure. But for now, it's still a pain in the ass.

Hell, I'd bet money that at this point, perl5 has fewer memory leaks and other programming errors in the compiler than Ruby does, just because people have been pounding on it for so long.

mfukar4• 16 years ago

I'm going to draw an analogy from Larry Wall's own words: Python 3 is to Python 2 what Perl 6 is to Perl 5, a different language.

Just because you had a bad experience with Python legacy code (yes, RHEL sucks), doesn't mean you get to discredit the language. What is it about the language you find unfinished? I'd be 99% certain any issue you're going to mention is actively being worked on.

skybrian3• 16 years ago

It seems like formerly popular but effectively dead languages tend to be most popular with sysadmins. (It explains bash, sed, and awk, at least.) So I'm not sure that being popular with sysadmins is really what the folks who want to revive Perl are going for?

igrekel• 16 years ago

As a canadian I wish manufacturers would use robertson screws rather than those damn philips screws. But alas, things are manufactured for north america as a whole and the canadian market is so small compared to the US market. Then again it could be worse, they could be using flat head screws.

javert• 16 years ago

As an American, I see flat head screws quite often (but also philips).

sigzero5• 16 years ago

That is just a monstrously huge opinion and that is all it is.

wazoox2• 16 years ago

The quality of the syntax is purely a question of taste and as such isn't really debatable (de gustibus coloribusque non disputandum est), but so far it seems that Ruby still lacks in scalability and speed compared to Perl or Python.

danieldon4• 16 years ago

    Ruby still lacks in scalability and speed compared to Perl

Ruby is faster than Perl, according to the language shootout:

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/which-programming-lang...

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/which-programming-lan...

va_coder• 16 years ago

Why Ruby? is a pretty damn good presentation. He talks about how the benefits include the culture, as well as the language.

http://ontwik.com/ruby/david-hansson-why-ruby/

edu• 16 years ago

I came to comment just the same. I used to work with Perl for about 4+ years, and now I'm on my way to exit a PHP work after 2 years. My next project will be in Ruby and this presentation helped me to rationalize the guts I had for Ruby (I've been playing a little bit with it).

The idea of making tools that are joyful to use to the programmers (wether it's the programming language, the editor, the SCM...) is something that appeals a lot to me, and it's something that (unfortunately) Perl lacks, basically due to it's syntax.

The community around the languages also affects, both have a great community around with hundreds of incredibly smart people with it's own quirkinesses, but the Ruby quirkinesses are more appealing to me (think DHH or _why) than Perl's (think Larry Wall or all the JAPH/golf...).

Su-Shee5• 16 years ago

This is bascially what I was talking about.

Though the Ruby community managed somehow to drive off _why and someone like Zed Shaw if I remember correctly. If that really appeals to you...

kentnl7• 16 years ago

You haven't really started using Ruby till you start trying to JAPH and golf it. Fortunately, that phase will pass and you'll return to writing maintainable code =).

>> "The idea of making tools that are joyful to use to the programmers ... basically due to it's syntax."

Thats pretty much entirely "who is working in this language" based imo. As for syntax being a limitation, its interesting you complain that, because others have complained that the syntax is too dynamic, too augmentable, and too unpredictable, hence people talking stuff about it being impossible to write a parser for it =).

Granted, often when this feature is used, its often abused, and there are various 'source filters' in Acme:: you'd get shot if you tried using them in production ( Switch.pm is one such shootable offsense ... with great power comes ... extra unwanted side effects ).

But an example of a Good use of the source filter/metaprogramming nature intrinsic to Perl is MooseX::Declare ( its only part source filter, but its "Sane" because its smart enough to not cause too many unwanted side effects ) to provide alternative class declaration syntax, that some would claim, even looks readable!.

   use 5.010;
   use MooseX::Declare; 
   
 
   class Foo { 
         method hello( $what ){ 
             say "Hello $what";
         }
   }

   Foo->new()->hello("World");  # Hellow World\n

mfukar4• 16 years ago

I don't get it; when the Perl folk thought they had to reach the masses, instead of making Perl 5 more accessible to newbies, instead of covering Perl events (a comment on the blog mentions some specialized hardware for doing so - lol), instead of actively pushing Perl projects, they decided to come up with Perl 6!

Yet Perl 6, except from some blog posts describing its utter dominance over Perl 5 performance, still hasn't seen the coverage/promotion it deserves (I'm assuming here, because I'm not using it).

Maybe there are some lessons to be learned here.

chromatic5• 16 years ago

I don't get it

To start: there exist Perl programmers who have worked on both Perl 5 and Perl 6, specifically to make Perl 5 more accessible and to make Perl 6 more imminent. Don't assume the entire Perl community is a hivemind with a single shared purpose.

mfukar4• 16 years ago

I don't; and that wasn't my point.

po2• 16 years ago

I used to be a huge Perl advocate; I loooved perlmonks back in the day. (Just tried to log back into it after probably over 10 years but the forgot password link doesn't work) I read the Camel book cover-to-cover and giggled at the footnotes.

While I loved the language, I can't imagine going back to it. Now perl programs look like cat typing to me. It was way too expressive. The TIMTOWDI mentality meant that I could never read code I didn't write myself, and even some that I did. It was terse and dense like poetry and hard to understand - like poetry. To really "know" the language meant knowing a huge surface area full of exceptions and special conditions.

Sure, you could limit yourself to certain best-practices and styles but it was like being handing the keys to the porsche and told to only drive 35. At every turn, the language was begging you to flex that newly acquired knowledge of special syntax. The obfuscation contests, the perl poetry, the quines… Many languages have this failing in my opinion and it certainly matters more when you're working in a large team (hence, rigid boring old Java) but Perl taught me what it was like to go too far down that path.

It is what I would call a write-only language.

berntb4• 16 years ago

>>Just tried to log back into [Perlmonks] after probably over 10 years

>>It is what I would call a write-only language.

I get a bit of vertigo, here...

You really left about a decade ago -- and don't seem to know much about what has happened since. But you have opinions?!

(If you wonder what is wrong with that quote, check the Best Practices book. [Edit: And as someone noted, chromatic's "Modern Perl" is good.] And so on.)

But the real joke here, are the upvotes. wtf?

Edit: For the third time... :-) "Write only language" is just trolling. PBP by Conway is the standard work on layout, variable naming etc etc. It is from 2005...

po2• 16 years ago

I left perlmonks a decade ago. I would also say I left the active community. Doesn't mean I haven't kept up with the language. Doesn't mean I haven't programmed perl in the meantime. What don't you get? You're making an attack on me about my own impression of the language because I haven't logged into a website for 10 years. Seems like if you disagreed with the substance of the post, you could have just explained it.

Also, of course I have opinions just like you. I told my story. And some people liked it and upvoted. I don't get why that deserves a "wtf" other than trying to rally people to downvote me.

ddkrone2• 16 years ago

I have just started getting into perl and its terse procedural goodness is a breath of fresh air. Sometimes static types, classes and objects get really old.

wazoox2• 16 years ago

That's why you must use Modern Perl. See guidelines in the free Modern Perl Book : http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2010/11/the-book-is-out.ht...

sigzero5• 16 years ago

You are describing a Perl mentality that really doesn't exist today and is only really touted by people that used Perl "back in the day". The community mindset has changed a lot in the last couple of years. Now, that community is trying to show that change to the world...and slowly...it is working.

Samuel_Michon• 16 years ago

From the article:

"The iPhone isn't the highest sold smartphone"

Sure it is. At least in the U.S., Japan, New Zealand and Australia. In most other countries, Nokia is the most popular smartphone vendor, but because they offer hundreds of different models, I doubt Nokia has one specific model that sells better than the iPhone 4.

[U.S.] http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/01/canalys-iphone-becomes-mo...

[Australia] http://www.idc.com/about/viewpressrelease.jsp?containerId=pr...

[New Zealand] http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/telecommunications/andro...

[Japan] http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-cap...

flatline• 16 years ago

'I've always wondered how those mechanism of "being THE it-language" or "the tool the cool kids use these days" or "success" in terms of "spreading everywhere" really works.'

Just having CPAN isn't enough. There need to be new and interesting projects that stand on their own and are current and relevant. I'm not saying there aren't, I just don't read about them on HN, reddit, etc. Perl was always about making things easy, and it wasn't hard to see how a perl script was better than a cgi handler in C. How is writing a DSL interpreter in Perl cool compared to, say, Ruby? How do the Perl MVC frameworks make things easier/better than rails or django?

Su-Shee5• 16 years ago

That's totally not the point with all our languages these days - Ruby, Python, Perl - next year JavaScript will probably have a similar ecosystem of modules as we do as productive as the community writes code. Who doesn't have some amazing web framework these days?!

The differences boil down to details, architecture, stability, speed, security, documentation and the like - but seriously, do you really think some route handler in _programming language_ X or Y does make _any_ difference?

I personally didn't like the philosophy of RoR - I liked Merb better and got really put off by its community (and still am) and specifically by blog postings selling me shit as gold and all this "awesome <insert some simple basic not even well crafted solution to an every day problem here>" selling - but this is a matter of _taste_ and _personal preferences_ and don't really count as an argument.

Of course you can write a damn DSL in Perl in any way you like - otherwise a project like Moose wouldn't even be possible which wrote an entire metaobject OO system in Perl.

My point was that people usally plainly don't _know_ about those things and blindly think that PHP is the only language you can do "Web" with, Ruby the only language to write a DSL in and Python the only language well I have no idea what Python might be the only language for. ;)

pyre• 16 years ago

A suggestion for a Perl screencast: using the Perl debugger. ~1.5 years ago my friend found a bug in the Perl debugger that had rendered it basically non-functional for several releases. I think it's telling that no one picked up on that for so long (i.e. no one is using the Perl debugger, probably because they don't know it exists and/or how to use it).

[ IIRC, it might be the bug under: http://perldoc.perl.org/perl5100delta.html ; search for 'PERLIO_DEBUG' ]

megamark16• 16 years ago

I learned vim over emacs because vi is installed on every linux machine I have ever touched, so when I sit down to a server and I need to edit a config file, I try vim, then I use vi, and I always find one or the other. I just opened Terminal on my Ubuntu 10.10 machine and typed "emacs" and it informed me that it wasn't installed, but was available in a slew of packages.

kentnl7• 16 years ago

Probably a good reason to use Perl too, finding a machine without it is hard. =)

astrofinch• 16 years ago

I never understood this rationale for learning vim. Do you really spend a lot of your development time on random Unix boxes you and all of your friends lack root access to?

wladimir2• 16 years ago

These days, probably not that much, with the advent of virtualisation. But a decade ago there were a lot of shared shell servers in use with only a minimal install and a small per-user quota. So the rationale made sense...

pmikal• 16 years ago

Hip or un-hip, ChargeSmart loves perl - developers looking for work at a San Francisco based funded payments start-up should email me their details, pmikal [at] ChargeSmart.com.

bootload• 16 years ago

"... Err, yeah well of course Vim is a really nice programming editor, man - why do you think we use it?! ..."

traditionally because if you are on a machine with limited memory vi, vim is the only editor that will load and there is no way you will get me using 'ed' again ~ http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch13s02.html#id2963445

alnewkirk2• 16 years ago

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring. Perl is awesome, and since I've been using it practically my entire career and have contributed quite a substantial amount of time developing libraries for CPAN I suppose it my core-competency.

Bottom line, CPAN is awesome ... but lets not be a one trick pony. When you hear things over-and-over you should probably take notice (and maybe even onus). "Perl is not newbie friendly, past or present (modern)", "Perl community is not friendly (rtfm)", "Perl is not used for the new web", "Perl has no good IDE", etc.

I'd like to see Perl restored to its former glory because it is an incredibly versatile language. IMHO, I think Perl developers need to develop more purty public-facing tools, e.g. Websites, Web Apps, Desktop Apps, etc. .. see Lacuna Expanse for example.

CPAN Modules are not public-facing (or are to a point) and do nothing towards altering the perception of Perl.

rgbrgb• 16 years ago

This article kind of made me want to get better at Vim.

pacemkr2• 16 years ago

I'm just getting into Ruby and converting to vim as my primary editor, and I didn't even know that this is a "hip" thing to do. All of a sudden I feel trashy for making logical choices.

I think the author misjudged why people like me choose Ruby and vim -- choices that have nothing to do with each other, btw.

I'm a fan of terseness and readability. Ruby has a reputation for both. I've never heard the following phrases spoken: "Perl is great for writing DSL's." "Perl is very readable."

The most amazing experience has been going on GitHub on day one, reading the Rails, Haml, Sinatra, Tilt, you name it, code and being able to understand virtually any part of it. This is not only a testament to the language, but also a testament to the quality of the frameworks and the API's that are being produced with it. Show me a web framework written in Perl that I can dig into and understand with zero Perl experience.

Vim, on the other hand, is a sour-sweet topic. Here is the only reason I'm using vim: everything else sucks ___. Vim also sucks ____ because in 2011 it is still a text editor that can't copy paste using the "normal people" shortcuts. I'm looking forward to the day I finally customize vim enough to match Notepad in usability.

As much as vim usability sucks, I know that I can spend a year customizing it (and it will take a year) and be able to rely on it for the rest of my life. In contrast, there is no such incentive to invest into the monstrosities riding over the JVM (not calling names).

Also, screencasts are great because I read all day and its tiring, physically tiring. Sitting back, relaxing my eyes and being educated while I sip on a coffee and have a cookie is my idea of fun. Screencasts are free, bite sized, training. By the author's logic Khan Academy is worthless as an educational tool because most of it is written somewhere.

draegtun2• 16 years ago

Show me a web framework written in Perl that I can dig into and understand with zero Perl experience

I think delving into any web framework with zero language experience isn't going to be easy :)

However here are two Perl web frameworks which (IMHO) are easy to follow:

* Mojolicious - https://github.com/kraih/mojo

* Tatsumaki - https://github.com/miyagawa/Tatsumaki

sea6ear• 16 years ago

Try ":source mswin.vim" - I think that should give "normal" style copy/cut/paste behavior - note that "old" ctrl-v becomes ctrl-q with this change.

nickknw• 16 years ago

Regarding vim and "normal people" shortcuts, if 'source mswin.vim' doesn't work for you, here are the mappings I have in my .vimrc to give it the normal CTRL-C, CTRL-X, and CTRL-V, as well as sharing the clipboard with windows:

    " share clipboard
    set clipboard=unnamed  

    " CTRL-V is Paste in insert mode
    imap <C-V>		"+gpa   
    " CTRL-C is Copy, CTRL-X is Cut, in visual mode
    vmap <C-C>		"+y
    vmap <C-x>		"+d
    " Use CTRL-Q to do what CTRL-V used to do
    noremap <C-Q>		<C-V>

pacemkr2• 16 years ago

Thank you for sharing that. I've never heard of source mswin.vim. The standard copy paste shortcuts are platform agnostic at this point, hell, even my phone uses them (webOS). This is where I've found vim and emacs incredibly frustrating out of the box.

xsltuser2010• 16 years ago

Maybe you should market Perl as uncool and weird and without annoying yuppies like DHH. ;P

And suddenly, you're hip

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