Brazil's President Blames NGOs for Amazon Fires

https://latinamericareports.com/bolsonaro-blames-ngos-for-amazon-fires/2940/

by egusa • 7 years ago

93 46 7 years ago

giacaglia2• 7 years ago

The fires are in Bolivia, Paraguai and in the state of Amazonas and Rondonia in Brazil. Here is a picture of the emissions: https://twitter.com/m_parrington/status/1163834182860247040

lucis• 7 years ago

No it's not. It's mostly in the state of Roraima

cma2• 7 years ago

That seems to show it burning in the ocean? That seems to include all the exhaust and not be a picture of the fires themselves.

cma2• 7 years ago

Ah OP mentions that, I read the comment wrong or it was edited.

lwansbrough• 7 years ago

I live in BC where it’s not uncommon for wildfires to consume a million hectares in one summer (as was the case in 2018 with a total of 1.3m hectares burned.)

...Typically we put out the fires first then assign the blame, seeing as it doesn’t really matter who’s fault it is once it’s started...

rajbot• 7 years ago

These fires are being set intentionally by agribusiness. They don't want to put them out.

- https://www.newsweek.com/pray-amazonia-brazil-jair-bolsonaro...

- https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/22/americas/amazon-fires-humans-...

Ididntdothis• 7 years ago

“Typically we put out the fires first then assign the blame, seeing as it doesn’t really matter who’s fault it is once it’s started”

For a lot of people it’s more important to put blame than solving a problem.

spraak2• 7 years ago

The same president who recommended pooping every other day [1] in order to protect the environment.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49304358

hu3• 7 years ago

It was a joke. He does this kind of jokes on a daily basis during his morning interview with journalists.

spraak2• 7 years ago

I'm aware of that yes...

giacaglia2• 7 years ago

There is a good interactive map: https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-cosc?cosc,-12.555,-7...

marcosdumay• 7 years ago

Thanks a lot.

It's very hard to understand what is happening from the media (Brazilian or international). This map explains:

- why it's so concerning even if the fires are overall smaller than the Amazon average for this time - because most of Acre and Rondônia are on fire, the average is down pushed by the largest, less populated states.

- what is up with the national and Acre's governments fighting on TV - most of the fire is there.

- How can the smoke reach São Paulo even though there's none of it here at the middle of the way in Brasilia - it literally took a turn at Bolivia.

The Bolivian and Peruvian people are probably not happy at all with the fires. I wonder why I don't see them complaining.

FraKtus• 7 years ago

Whoaaa. Scroll and look at China!!!

joncrane• 7 years ago

What is the huge red blot off the coast of NYC?

coliveira• 7 years ago

Bolsonaro's government is a criminal regime. One of his first goals was to destroy the agencies that regulate the environment and disable the reporting mechanisms (which were "fake news" according to him). He personally fired the president of INPE, a state research agency, for publicizing a report about Amazon deforestation.

bpanon• 7 years ago

Criminal? As opposed to which other governments?

malandrew6• 7 years ago

Upvoted. Bolsonaro's government is a criminal regime in the same way that every Brazilian government has been criminal. You basically need to commit crimes to get elected in Brazil and commit more once you're elected to stay in power.

throwaway57522• 7 years ago

It is the crisis of our time. Bolsonaro is shameless, grossly lying. People are too afraid to say otherwise, and there is a critical mass of people who are willing to be party to the lying that creates social pressure against speaking to truth. Obviously not just limited to Brazil.

pmf• 7 years ago

I think he is trying to cut government down to size.

malandrew6• 7 years ago

Anyone downvoting this must not know how big the Brazilian government is and how invasive it is in the lives of Brazilian citizens.

2_listerine_pls• 7 years ago

Similar things happening in Mexico under Obrador. The current government defunded some agencies and programs that were set to protect and monitor the environment. For instance, they stopped Satelital monitoring of forest fires, increased incentives for deforestation, reduced technical personnel, etc...

Mexico seems to be inverting the popular phrase: "You can't improve what You can't measure". They defunded an agency in charge of measuring effectiveness of governmental programs, eliminated testing requirement for teachers, etc...

Maybe their job is to sabotage their economies.

haolez• 7 years ago

Bolsonaro's government is a criminal regime

I live in Brazil and I disagree. I think his government is messy, but the previous ones were pretty bad as well. They almosted bankrupted the country, which was why Bolsonaro managed to elect himself as president with the argument of "I'm not them". He is simply incompetent, which shows.

fencepost• 7 years ago

Of course he blames the NGOs. They've been fairly vocal against his policies for opening up further territory for agribusiness, so now he's blaming them saying that they have set fires in order to discredit him. The end result is almost certainly going to be multiple attempts to ban as many of those organizations as possible on the grounds that they are some sort of eco-terrorists destroying Brazil's rainforest. It won't make much sense but making sense is not the goal. Getting those organizations out of his hair is the goal.

Watch what he does, not what he says.

emersonrsantos2• 7 years ago

According to this NASA report, this is a natural occurrence on this time of the year:

As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years.

Source: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra...

neuronexmachina• 7 years ago

Interestingly, the URL used to have a different caption: https://web.archive.org/web/20190822024248/http://www.nasa.g...

Although it is not unusual to see fires in Brazil at this time of year due to high temperatures and low humidity it seems this year the number of fires may be record setting. According to Brazil’s space research center INPE almost 73,000 fires have been recorded so far this year. INPE is seeing an 83% increase over the same period in 2018.

malandrew6• 7 years ago

73,000 fires have been recorded so far this year. INPE is seeing an 83% increase over the same period in 2018.

Number of fires doesn't seem like a good measure. A simple change in how you distinguish between two fires in close proximity can dramatically change the numbers. Higher resolution measurements can allow you to distinguish between two fires that might have looked like one in years prior.

A much better measure would be to look at the quantity of surface area on fire.

emersonrsantos2• 7 years ago

Exactly, INPE institute’s direction is having a political fight with the Brazilian government, which accuses INPE of manipulating the numbers. I think that’s why NASA removed that data.

xwdv3• 7 years ago

I see this meme pop up on social media all the time now about how the Amazon rainforest is burning and to spread the “awareness”.

But really, what are you supposed to do? Merely being aware of some tragedy occurring far away doesn’t do anything. The people who perpetuated it don’t give a damn. Are we supposed to go put out the fires? Are we supposed to go kill the people who did this?

If there’s nothing I can do, then I’m better off not knowing. I have more relevant things to care about. The only thing this awareness campaign tells me is that Brazilians have done a terrible job of protecting their rainforest, and they should be judged accordingly in the future.

Beltiras• 7 years ago

Our awareness alone might reduce the harm being done. If this were front and center on all cablenews and connected to alarming news like the Greenland glacier melting faster than anticipated it might reduce the pace at which Bolsonaro and the forces aligned with him light these fires.

darpa_escapee2• 7 years ago

Merely being aware of some tragedy occurring far away doesn’t do anything.

The first step on the long road of change is acknowledging that a problem exists.

Just because you can't imagine how you can effect change, doesn't mean it isn't possible. Problems of this scale require a sufficiently scaled solution. Economic sanctions and treaties would provide incentives for change. Hit Brazil's government and business leaders where it hurts: their wallets and their power on the world stage.

xwdv3• 7 years ago

Just because change is possible, doesn’t mean my awareness has any part to play in it.

malandrew6• 7 years ago

Hit Brazil's government and business leaders where it hurts: their wallets

This also hurts ordinary citizens in Brazil trying to make a living.

andersonmvd• 7 years ago

The fire is not purposeless. The land will be reused for livestock, to have more cows and food for them as well. A big chunk of it will be exported to countries that buy these things. Chances are that it includes your country as well. So maybe rethinking your / your network diet is a big incentive to prevent further fires.

Despite that, your excerpt on "(...) they should be judged accordingly in the future." is almost a religious statement. Or maybe you are assuming that all Brazilians voted for the fires, so next time you see one you have a judgement to state? No matter the angle I look, this is a very unfortunate statement. Or more precisely "judgement" is a very unwise word choice I daresay.

rv-de• 7 years ago

But if he doesn't eat the steak someone else will! </s>

abhijitr• 7 years ago

Brazilians have done a terrible job of protecting their rainforest

While the Amazon is in Brazilian territory, it is one of the largest carbon sinks in the world and therefore has a global positive externality. Therefore this is not a domestic issue.

Perhaps by spreading awareness we can shift the Overton window on how these cross-border climate issues should be addressed. E.g. perhaps Brazil should be paid from a global fund to not cut down the rain forest.

dictum• 7 years ago

perhaps Brazil should be paid from a global fund to not cut down the rain forest

It used to be. Bolsonaro called it "bribery", and said Merkel should mind her own business (Germany was the main benefactor).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/16/norway-halts-a...

mrnobody_67• 7 years ago

I'm still baffled that I didn't hear about this until about 48 hours ago....

aglavine3• 7 years ago

I wonder who decided to start spreading the news and this narrative...

aglavine3• 7 years ago

It is sad how Propaganda (repeated here in multiples comments) blames Bolsonaro, instead of finding out how the fires started and spread.

throwaway57522• 7 years ago

Well, could do your part by sourcing your allegation, instead of spreading FUD.

It seems like believing it requires that groups dedicated to preserving the Amazon's rain forests are burning it, and ignores Bolsonaro's long and well-documented track record on the issue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro#Environmental_p...

aglavine3• 7 years ago

I don't see any long and well documented recored there, just a few declarations and an affirmation that Brazil "preserves more [rainforest] than anyone."

Blaming is bad for both Bolsonaro and the ones spreading the Propaganda.

One thing is clear: no one spreading the news will care in a week how it started and what can be done for preventing this happen again.

malandrew6• 7 years ago

Current situation map from INPE:

http://queimadas.dgi.inpe.br/queimadas/portal/situacao-atual

The http://queimadas.dgi.inpe.br site also has links to a lot of raw data on wildfires in Brazil.

jacknews• 7 years ago

where's Brazil's (or environmentalists worldwide) Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him?

Brazil's President Blames NGOs for Amazon Fires

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