The difference a dad can make

https://www.evoke.org/articles/june-2019/Data-Driven/Fresh_Takes/the-difference-a-dad-can-make

by mooreds • 7 years ago

274 52 7 years ago

pcunite2• 7 years ago

Beautiful story. I have a daughter too who shows interest in technical areas and its my honor to help her reason about all the options available to her. Another daughter I have prefers more emotionally driven subject matter and again I'm just as proud and appreciate all that she will offer our world.

zamfi• 7 years ago

emotionally driven subject matter

Could you say a little more about what you mean by this phrase?

pcunite2• 7 years ago

She loves to write thank you notes, play with dolls, and seems to have a very natural emotional connection (sympathy/empathy) for the people she is communicating with.

thinkingkong• 7 years ago

Just if it slips past anyone, this is (wonderfully) written by Melinda Gates.

benj111• 7 years ago

Yes it had! Thanks.

credit_guy• 7 years ago

And in case it slips past a subset of the “anyone” above, that computer is an Apple computer.

olavgg• 7 years ago

My daughter who is now 9 years old is just as excited as I was at that age when it comes to computers. We play with Microbit, Raspberry Pi and of course Minecraft. We also play code combat together, which is really an amazing and fun way to learn coding. Everything is on her promises, I never push her.

ricardbejarano• 7 years ago

When I was 9 my dad did two things I'll never thank him enough for:

1. Buy me a laptop and install Ubuntu on it, instead of Windows, so my first OS was Linux. And I'm talking about 11-years-ago Linux for a 9yo kid.

2. Drill into me the importance of English. For non-English speakers, I believe this is the one true barrier of entry. All docs, forums, videos, etc. are English-first, and by the time they get translated into other languages it's no longer cutting-edge, so if you can't read English you are stuck with the "old" technologies.

Thanks, dad!

ahje• 7 years ago

Drill into me the importance of English.

This. My parents don't really do IT and I wasn't old enough to pick it up from my grandfather, but both parents realised how important English is and made sure I spoke it already at a fairly young age. I'd never have been able to get into IT without it.

phkahler• 7 years ago

There were a whole bunch of parents in the US a few years back having their kids learn Mandarin because so much business was happening in China. I haven't heard this in the last few years though.

agumonkey• 7 years ago

Goes the other way around, lots of teachers and doctors said 'to cure a children, cure his parents'

Gatsky3• 7 years ago

On a bit of a tangent, I have thought that the abortion debate ignores paternal responsibility. I don’t want to get into a debate about abortion (I am in favour), but logically if abortion is outlawed then a father abandoning their child should also be outlawed. Someone can father a child and then disappear without too many consequences, certainly without having to make difficult decisions or undergo a surgical procedure or raise a child for the next 20+ years. It strikes me however that it is impossible to force fathers to take responsibility. Needing to make child support payments is hardly enough. Abortion is in a way a compensating for this differential responsibility. It seems that women are blamed for getting pregnant and then vilified for wanting an abortion, but the father is not mentioned at all.

Guthur• 7 years ago

Of course bad fathers are mentioned. Bad male behavior is called out all the time usually with adjectives such as toxic, aggressive or predatory. And in many cases the default is to assume a man is bad and then wait to see if it's otherwise. I'm pretty sure it as default policy on one UK airline to never have an unaccompanied minor next to a male passenger.

Gatsky3• 7 years ago

My comment was in the context of abortion.

kgwgk3• 7 years ago

Someone can father a child and then disappear without too many consequences

Can’t mothers do the same? (Once the child is born, obviously.)

belorn• 7 years ago

Naturally they can but as a society we don't like to talk about it. It a bit like men who don't want to work to support themselves and others. Anyone at the bottom of the social hierarchy is culturally ignored and abandoning a child as a mother is not a winning strategy for social status.

a-saleh3• 7 years ago

You could consider the "Can run before the child is born" quite an advantage when trying to get rid of the responsibility of being a parent.

tomp3• 7 years ago

Au contraire, fathers don't have an option of relinquishing responsibility of having a child (at any time after conception). They have to pay child support, or face jail time! Not only do women have access to abortion, but they can also (AFAIK in many states/countries) give up the child for adoption (in which case they also don't need to pay child support, as the taxpayers/adoptive parents cover the child's costs).

I support abortion, but I also support "financial abortion" for unwilling fathers (same as currently exists for sperm donnors).

skissane2• 7 years ago

but they can also (AFAIK in many states/countries) give up the child for adoption (in which case they also don't need to pay child support, as the taxpayers/adoptive parents cover the child's costs).

In most jurisdictions, giving a child up for adoption legally requires the consent of both biological parents; it is not something the birth mother can do unilaterally. (Courts do have the power to override the requirement for consent of either or both parents; but, they have to give each parent the opportunity to be heard in court first.) So, when it comes to adoption, the position of the mother and the father are more parallel than you present it as.

wtdata• 7 years ago

if abortion is outlawed then a father abandoning their child should also be outlawed

Men are forced to pay child support. Either if they want the child or not. Woman in almost every state, can choose to abort if they don't want to raise the child or at least monetarily support it. Men have no choice.

Gatsky3• 7 years ago

Suggest that you look at the statistics: https://www.verywellfamily.com/us-child-support-statistics-2...

Think about how it actually works in reality, and it is obvious women are at a disadvantage. Toy example: man hurts back, can’t work, can’t pay support. Woman hurts back, still has to look after child and work.

Also, if you read my comment and the original article, support payments are obviously not a substitute for actual parenting.

sriku• 7 years ago

I'm super grateful to my dad for having let my hands near a computer at a time (late 80s, 90s) when computers were super expensive in India (they cost like a year's pay for a fresh grad back then). We couldn't afford one, but he took me to meet people who did and who showed me fascinating stuff like synthesizing sounds. I still recall my first "short circuit" on seeing a BASIC program that read "I = I + 1" and freaking out with "that's not possible".

My dad's University got a computer to help work with Indian languages (wonderful work on hardware and software for Tamil, Telugu, Devanagari done by research teams at Centre for Development of Advanced Computing Pune in the pre-unicode days). Still in high school, I got to help around organizing the library of the Indian Music Department. Later on, I wrote my own cataloging software in Emacs Lisp that kept details in a plain text file. Playing around with Slackware Linux in the early 90s definitely gave the feeling of being part of something big.

lqet• 7 years ago

I still recall my first "short circuit" on seeing a BASIC program that read "I = I + 1" and freaking out with "that's not possible".

Ha, for me it was the opposite: growing up in the 90ies before Internet, my dad bought a cheap old DOS computer for the entire family on which I experimented with .bat scripting and then discovered by accident the user manual of BASIC, which was included with DOS at the time. So I was familiar with "=" as an assignment operator for variables way before I really learned about variables in school. Because of this, it took me a while to get my head around solve-for-x equations in school, but I never had any problems with the f(x) = x^2 notation, because, after all, it worked exactly like a BASIC function, and I would freak out teachers and classmate because I immediately wondered whether something like f(x, y, z) exists in math.

On the other hand, I tried teaching a classmate Visual Basic in the early 2000s, and he had the exact reaction after seeing "x = x + 1": he declared that "this is impossible and makes no sense".

hiram112• 7 years ago

Playing around with Slackware Linux in the early 90s definitely gave the feeling of being part of something big.

Slackware in the late 90s is what got me hooked on Linux and computing in general, along with building my own AMD Sempron (i.e. inexpensive) machine from a bunch of mostly random parts I'd buy off Craigslist.

At one point in time, I knew what every single file in 'etc' was for, what every single process was, and every single listening port.

I feel bad for the younger kids learning Linux in 2019 with Centos or Ubuntu. The systems are so much more complicated, it's difficult to understand how everything is put together. Might as well be a black box like Windows or Mac.

peatmoss• 7 years ago

OpenBSD.

If you want to cut your teeth on “comprehensible unix” it’s a high water mark. Reading the man pages is probably worth a few years of sysadmin experience.

I too was a Slackware user of the 90s, but I was also a BSD user. OpenBSD is simply great, and has only gotten better—not more magical.

b3lvedere• 7 years ago

That was an awesome read! As a dad myself i can only hope i will have the honor of helping my kids as much as possible.

jmalkin• 7 years ago

Lovely story. My parents' approach to learning and what was acceptable and not had a very big effect on my choices in life

roflchoppa2• 7 years ago

Im grateful that my dad used to hit me with those orange hotwheels tracks. Built a lo of character that way.

aivisol2• 7 years ago

Being a techie myself, I was also super obsessed with my daughter being admitted into same college which I graduated (specializing in maths and physics). I insisted she studies there and helped her to prepare for admission exams. She failed and did not pass. Well, thanks god! It turned out her passion was languages and now at age of 22 she is fluent in six languages and has some grasp of perhaps 3-4 more. If there is the thing I regret as a parent, then that is not if my children chose this or that path in their lives (because it is their life, not mine, after all). I rather regret time not spent with them (I could have spent more) and not listening enough when they wanted to tell me or ask something. But, as it turns out, no college or university teaches us that (surprise!), it is from our own mistakes we (if lucky) realize that.

Riverheart• 7 years ago

In your defense, kids don't always pick the best long term path for themselves, or consider the long term at all. I know several people that didn't consider the long term and struggle to find gainful employment. I myself stumbled into my career which fortunately worked out but I shudder to think how things might have ended up otherwise. I'm glad she found her own way forward though.

aivisol2• 7 years ago

That is absolutely true. My actions were in part based on my parents' who insisted that I study there, for which I am grateful to them all my life.

dijit• 7 years ago

This is touching, and I really do not wish to talk it down.

However, I grew up not only without a father, but without support to go into any science/technological related field ("You need qualifications, you won't get them, you won't amount to anything- plumber is a great job for your skills" etc.), Yet I'm considered to be pretty good at what I do now.

I wonder just how much of her success could be attributed to the supportive father, I doubt it was the entire reason she had the passion she did.

microcolonel• 7 years ago

* ("You need qualifications, you won't get them, you won't amount to anything- plumber is a great job for your skills" etc.),*

Encouragement is only one form of support, honesty is the other. ;- ) My father was complicated, but I remember reorienting myself as a (very young) kid when I heard that what I was doing would make my life miserable.

P.S. suspend disbelief for a second, consider that maybe Melinda may have seen something in Bill that she didn't in her childhood, and that maybe there's more to it than you'd initially think.

RickJWagner• 7 years ago

Nice tribute. Fathers (and Mothers) make such a difference....

dfcowell• 7 years ago

I got a few paragraphs in before I had to stop.

My Mum fought tooth and nail against my Dad for me to get my first proper computer after I spent over 2 years cobbling together an ancient machine out of scraps and garbage.

I had the carcasses of 4-5 machines stashed under my bed by the time I got a single good (in the loosest sense of the word) machine to boot.

My childhood was defined by the conflict between my parents where Mum tirelessly defended my right to learn.

Fathers are incredibly powerful and they can make a difference. Whether that difference is positive or negative depends on the father in question. I have slowly rebuilt my relationship with my own father over many years, but we will never be close. It hurts.

athenot• 7 years ago

I am sorry this has been your experience. Your story—in an unfortunate way—strengthens the article by painting the opposite side.

Fathers are incredibly powerful and they can make a difference.

In good or bad. I am acutely aware of this with my own children.

linuxftw2• 7 years ago

... after I spent over 2 years cobbling together an ancient machine out of scraps and garbage.

Lack of having makes one resourceful. Look at today's world where just about every child in the developed world has a smart phone. Do they care about computing and how computers work, or are they merely appliances to today's generation? Most kids today know as much about an HVAC system as they do about the internal workings of a PC: nothing.

SketchySeaBeast• 7 years ago

It continues to be as it always was - a small group of people interested in how something worked - same with car enthusiasts - just because it's ubiquitous doesn't mean people care to know about it. I don't think that small group has changed. Their interest was the special ingredient.

loco5niner• 7 years ago

From your story, I'm not even convinced your dad was in the wrong here.

It sound's like he thought giving you a computer wasn't the best thing for you. Maybe he was right, maybe he was wrong. If it's true that he fought for what he believed was best regarding your welfare, then he was doing that part of his "dad job" well.

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." -- Mark Twain

stuff4ben• 7 years ago

I can echo this sentiment as well. My dad's interest in computers, as he was undergoing his masters degree in business, had him building an interface from his Commodore Plus/4 to an electronic typewriter. Being a poor staff sgt in the Air Force (and supporting a family of 4) he couldn't really afford a new printer. But with the free Plus/4 we got for attending a timeshare seminar and its built-in word-processor, it allowed him to edit his thesis much easier and complete it faster. Bonus side-effect was that it inspired me as a 9 year old to play with computers and learn BASIC programming. That and the continued purchases of computers throughout the rest of my childhood (C64, Amiga, 286, 486, etc) helped me become the computer nerd I am today. Thanks Dad!

chasd00• 7 years ago

you get what you give. As a father, my kids have taught me at least as much as i've taught them.

fit2rule• 7 years ago

Absolutely agree with this. Parenting is just another stage of personal growth - having kids is definitely replete with life lessons ..

onemoresoop• 7 years ago

My father was a mathematician/physicist, tinkerer and a voracious reader of litereature. In the mid 80's (in eastern europe) he had a lot of free time on his hands to experiment with computers and to build a personal library of books. I vividly remember the day he brought home a sinclair spectrum clone that was running basic and two tapes of games for me to enjoy. I got bored with playing games rather quickly and started dabbling in basic attempting to make my own games. My fascination with computers grew tremedously. In the early 90s my father emmigrated to the US and ended up as a programmer for Bell Atlantic after stumbling upon a few odd jobs. Though he had a hard immigrant life he kept me updated with books and faster and faster PCs at the time (x86, x286, pentium, etc) and really long vivid letters about his experiences in the US, explaining school math and programming to me. We were separated by distance for 10 years and yet his infuence was stronger than ever. He also made sure I was also learning other things as well and that I wasn't glued to the computer screen all the time. Fast forward to early 00s when I and the rest of the family emmigrated to the US as well, my dad taught me a bit of SQL and VB6 after which I landed a job as a junior dev. I was an intern first then the company hired me F/T. I've had to quickly upgrade from VB6 but SQL had remained in my toolkit and proved a good investment. Unfortunately he passed away a year after my arrival. It all came as a huge shock, he had a massive heart attack due to stress, I think he was too old to adapt to the fast paced US, he was 55 years old. RIP Dad. I ended up supporting my family for years to come and and if it wasn't for his guidance I don't know how all would have turned out.

dennisgorelik• 7 years ago

About Melinda Gates: http://fortune.com/2016/03/16/melinda-gates-fortune-classic/

The difference a dad can make

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