Google bans apps that facilitate sale of marijuana

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-play-store-marijuana/google-bans-apps-that-facilitate-sale-of-marijuana-idUSKCN1SZ2NZ

by Illniyar • 7 years ago

195 128 7 years ago

reuters.com

ksaj2• 7 years ago

Illegal markets? It is legal in all of Canada, in pretty much the way alcohol is. Are the apps unavailable in Canada where the legal pot (which is in some cases far superior to the shaggy bits one would get on the streets) comes from government certified sources?

But then again, I haven't seen a Google booze ad. Do they allow alcohol ads?

ilikehurdles• 7 years ago

They allow Drizly, an alcohol delivery app.

floatingatoll2• 7 years ago

Do they knowingly allow it and have affirmed publicly that such apps are okay?

Or, have they silently permitted it on their App Store but never openly said “this is fine”?

duskwuff2• 7 years ago

Do they allow alcohol ads?

https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/6012382

Surprisingly, the answer is "yes". But alcohol ads can only be shown on sites which have explicitly opted in to alcohol ads, which most sites don't.

dmix• 7 years ago

Which demonstrates the benefit of having decentralized websites deciding which ads are okay rather than one centralized global distribution platform deciding what's "acceptable content" for every app uploaded there.

chepaslaaa2• 7 years ago

The highest end concentrates are only available on the black/grey market currently, and if you have some skilled growers in your relationship circle you can access some much better stuff (more potent and/or grown with less chemical additives, not to mention a much fresher curing process and a more thorough trimming job) than whatever is the highest end stuff they sell in the stores. They have put a limit on potency and their regulations mean that the weed they sell in stores in way too dry once it reaches costumers. It's not the biggest deal to most people and better than putting people behind bars, but there could also be a much better craft cannabis culture that could be promoted by small businesses rather than the corporate consolidation the liberal party is currently encouraging. In my opinion it would make users build a healthier rapport to this drug, in the same way that getting into fancy wine as well as craft beers and spirits can lead to a more gastronomic approach to alcohol than drinking coors light and vodka.

ehsankia3• 7 years ago

Other than the potency limit, what limits legal stores from fixing all the other issues (bad trimming job, dry, chemical additives, craft cannabis, etc). It just seems like since it's new and everyone's jumping to buy it, there's more focus on quantity right now, but maybe as the market gets more competitive that'll change.

I don't see why it'd be different to, for example, Starbucks vs your local quality coffee shop, both co-existing.

disordinary3• 7 years ago

It's the danger that we're getting as these global companies have more influence over the entire planet. The morality of the home country is pushed on those who want to use the service. Same thing with the whole Google / Huawei stoush. US priorities have an impact on users all over the world.

latch• 7 years ago

The morality of the largest economies (generally backed by the largest military) has always been pushed onto others. Isn't this the way the world has worked since the dawn of the first civilizations?

Not you specifically, but most people on HN have probably been the overwhelming beneficiaries of this approach.

mlazos• 7 years ago

This got me thinking, this is kind of encouraged from an engineering perspective. It's a lot easier to not have to maintain all these different versions, and just have one. Not necessarily the reason they're doing it because google already has this working at scale for search, but still intriguing at least for smaller companies that operate globally.

ezoe• 7 years ago

In many countries, marijuana is an illegal drug. In such countries, dealing with the illegal drugs is a serious crime. Also, dealing with the person/company/organization who deal with the illegal drugs are also illegal.

The end result is, global companies can't do business that is legal on some countries, but illegal on majority of coutries.

On some illegal activities such as endorsing the woman's right, freedom of speech, democracy, alcohol(There are countries which prohibit these), they ignore it since it has established its place or not dealing with are also serious crime, or the countries which prohibit such act is minority. But for totally new topic like marijuana, It's safer to not dealing with.

dalbasal2• 7 years ago

Good point.

Let's take a relatively trivial example: TV "appropriateness." Mainland western Europe have different standards to the US. They are more tolerant of bad language and nudity in daytime programming, less tolerant of violence. Other places have different tolerances (political & religious taboos, often).

YouTube's policies are clearly of the US flavour.

NicoJuicy3• 7 years ago

I would hope that China's priorities have not much impact in the world

buildzr3• 7 years ago

Sounds like they're actually only banning delivery apps, even in Canada most (if not all?) of the delivery services being offered by Weedmaps for example are illegal. In most provinces you'd need to order from a provincially run store or go through the medical system where you can order from a specific licensed producer to get it legally by mail.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/05/29/no-chill-google-jus...

rando444• 7 years ago

If you read the article, they say it's anything marijuana related that has a shopping cart.

The apps are legal as long as google isn't the one processing money from drug related transactions.

Which, while disappointing, does make sense.

sanxiyn• 7 years ago

This is disappointing indeed.

paxys4• 7 years ago

And yet a large chunk of Google employees and executives enjoy all of the freedoms provided to them in the state of California, including legal marijuana.

asveikau• 7 years ago

That one is at least ambiguous, as it is still federally illegal in the whole US. I think the Canadian example cited elsewhere is less ambiguous.

ehsankia3• 7 years ago

But what does that have to do with anything? I'm sure they also enjoy porn on their free time too, but that doesn't mean they have to allow it in their ads and apps.

madaxe_again• 7 years ago

“Do as I say, not as I do” is commonly known as “hypocrisy”. It’s generally not seen as a desirable trait in many cultures.

acct17712• 7 years ago

But it's just as hypocritical.

manfredo3• 7 years ago

"Legal marijuana" is a bit of a misrepresentation. In the eyes of the law, cannabis remains illegal nation-wide. Federal law supersedes state laws on controlled substances. States like California and Washington has not so much legalized cannabis so much as they have repealed all their state laws and deliberately refuse to enforce federal law on cannabis. For everyday people, this effectively legalizes it. We can go to a store, buy a pack of joints, and walk home with zero threat of legal repercussion. But for large organizations, they still have good reason to be afraid of being subject to repercussions if they monetize or facilitate the sale of marijuana.

And regardless, plenty of large tech companies have blanket policies of avoiding controversial markets. Amazon does not sell ammo and many gun accessories (e.g. magazines). They don't sell porn either as far as I know.

gnopgnip2• 7 years ago

This is not an accurate representation of the current status quo. Medical marijuana is effectively legal at the federal level in states where it is legal. The federal government, via the appropriations bill has not allocated any funding to prosecuting these crime. More recent case law has clarified the meaning of this, it explicitly forbids prosecuting these crimes in states where medical marijuana is legal. In a number of cases where the accused was charged and plead guilty, prosecution was later stopped(and hundreds of thousands in cash, and precious metals that were seized, were all returned) because of this.

jammygit4• 7 years ago

Steam started selling porn games semi recently. It was a dark day for my “recommended” feed

NorthOf33rd• 7 years ago

I'll miss venmo.

This article is a bit thin on details. is this just black market? All sales? something else?

techntoke• 7 years ago

But did they get rid of the apps to buy shrooms?

ta1234567890• 7 years ago

Someone I know started a b2b business in the marijuana industry. Tried doing google ads and got all their ads blocked. Every time they reached out to support they gave them a different reason for blocking the ad. And every time after complying and re-submitting, the ads would get blocked again. Finally they gave up on Google ads.

bradleyhb• 7 years ago

Link to the business please?

throwaway66666• 7 years ago

I bought and sold stock from a Marijuana ETF when they first got introduced. And 3 days later my bank called me and told me I cannot do it again. Of course I immediately tried doing it again after the call, but the online brokerage system would return an error. So, if I can't trade stock from weed-related business, but those tickers are listed and valid on NASDAQ (which is an american index), who can?

mastrsushi2• 7 years ago

Has anyone opposing this action thought maybe an aggressively competitive tech corporation doesn't want to be held liable for assisting in distribution of a drug that isn't nationwide legal? They have way larger concerns than worrying about this.

paxys4• 7 years ago

Big national banks and credit card providers now openly take and store payments for marijuana dispensaries. Companies happily provide them with insurance and mortgages. There are mutual funds and ETFs on national exchanges that invest in such businesses (and you can buy into them as well, from anywhere in the country).

Somehow I don't think Google is scared of getting into trouble for allowing an app that has a web browser with a reference to marijuana. It is a moral stance, nothing else.

mastrsushi2• 7 years ago

I think it's a combination of liability and PR.

These may be apps for legal dispensaries, but that's by state. Obviously there is no use for the app outside of the legal zone, but does thet really look good?

Yes, a lot of modern apps are turning into embedded blink and v8 solutions that port existing websites. Regardless these "apps" are still directly related to marijuana. I dont think it's a moral stance, I think Google doesn't want to be visibly apart of it. Financial institutions are a lot more private and ambiguous in their weed assistance.

m-ee• 7 years ago

Happily is an overstatement. Access to banking and finance is still a major issue for dispensaries.

j16sdiz2• 7 years ago

Banks are not allowed to serve the cannabis business directly. Although there are plan to change that soon

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/push-for-legislation-allow...

alasdair_• 7 years ago

Which credit card providers openly take payments from dispensaries?

The closest I have seen is a provider that will let you buy bitcoin (and then immediately use the bitcoin to buy the pot, in the same POS terminal transaction).

asdff• 7 years ago

I've sampled plenty of wares and yet to see a vendor that isn't cash only. Is this very recent news? Hasn't trickled into my neck of the woods yet. Those ETFs and stocks are for canadian companies too I believe, even though they are on the NYSE.

switchbak• 7 years ago

Which nation? Not mine. And that's the problem, now we're having foreign morality imposed upon a populace (where it is entirely legal) based upon the preferences of another nation (or really the whims of this particular corporation).

You could say "just use another app store", but that's really not a viable option. When a company's store policies becomes a limiting factor for your (fully legal and ethical) personal choices,I think we have a problem.

ultrarunner• 7 years ago

It's not really morality at all. Most recent U.S. presidents have partaken in at least one illegal drug. It's just the law as it stands now. They have their reasons (whatever they may be) and that propagates to entities with legal exposure. Unfortunately, sometimes that's just the way it is until it changes.

burtonator• 7 years ago

They have way larger concerns than worrying about this.

And this is the problem with large corporations.

If the industry was more competitive they wouldn't be able to turn away money.

TelmoMenezes• 7 years ago

If the industry was more competitive they wouldn't be able to turn away money.

This is the stupid libertarian answer for everything, not so different from communism in its arrogance and over-simplification of human motives and behaviors. If the XX century taught us anything, it's that there are no simple answers.

It the industry was perfectly competitive, nobody would be able to turn away money. We would have the perfect whip, making us all labor for all of our waking hours, no holidays, no weekends. Consumers would have perfect choice at the lowest possible prices. They would, however, have zero free time to exercise this "freedom".

Too much competition is cruel and wasteful, leading to a dystopia where, if you take 1 second of rest, someone else might not. Too little competition kills motivation to do the things that are hard but essential, leading to mass starvation and social system collapse.

The answer is democracy, which is not a simple answer nor a silver bullet. But it's the best game in town. When things go too far in one direction, it is the citizen's right and duty to push them in another one. Sometimes the government interferes too little, sometimes too much. Bureaucracies and technocrats might be unsexy, but they lead to a more pleasant and humane world than slogans.

Tech companies should not have the final say on what you can are not use markets for. In a democracy, rules of society > rules of companies.

m-p-3• 7 years ago

They offer ads and app distribution services in Canada, where marijuana is legal nationwide yet decided to dismiss all of those worldwide.

brooklyntribe• 7 years ago

And what coder at Google is not a weekend stoner. I'm sure they're having a laugh at this one.

oh_sigh2• 7 years ago

I'm not a weekend stoner. More of a weekday type to make the drudgery more entertaining.

Stratoscope• 7 years ago

Back in the day, we used code words so no one would know what we were talking about.

Our favorite code word was "programmer's fuel."

Simulacra• 7 years ago

This is a bit asinine, they’ll have to ban messaging apps and everything because it all does the same thing.

oh_sigh2• 7 years ago

Thank goodness they shut this down quick. It's not like this was just a straightforward app designed to keep tabs on your chattel, I mean female family members. Marijuana actually hurts people!

amolo• 7 years ago

Marijuana actually hurts people!

How old are you again

cortesoft• 7 years ago

The comment is pretty clearly sarcasm.

rblatz• 7 years ago

I got the sarcasm in this post, but it seems like it went over a lot of heads.

DonHopkins2• 7 years ago

Lift the bales with you legs, not your back.

RaceWon• 7 years ago

For the love of god can we please make weed legal here in the US? Anyone, anywhere can buy weed at anytime, and its been that way for like 50 fuckin years now. Can we all agree that the war on weed is over, and the US Gov't lost. WTF!!

alex-2• 7 years ago

My guess is it's less about a moral issue with marijuana and more about a fear of upsetting people displaying the adds. Many of whom won't want to be associated with something federally illegal. The alternative headline being "Google displays illegal drug adds on school site" (or some other page that probably should not be showing ads)

paxys4• 7 years ago

This has nothing to do with advertising. It applies to apps in the Play store.

alex-2• 7 years ago

Not sure how I missed that, thanks.

buildzr3• 7 years ago

Wonder what they mean by "facilitate"? Were certain mail order places offering apps they're banning? directly taking payments?

Or are they seriously going after stuff like Weedmaps that just offers references to places that sell.

Marsymars• 7 years ago

Better source with answers to those questions: https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/05/29/no-chill-google-jus...

AstralStorm2• 7 years ago

I'd call that free advertisement, good old Sturgeon's effect.

throes_death• 7 years ago

Thank goodness I just use skype and email to communicate with my dealer. Oh, hang on, they're applications too :S

bayareanative• 7 years ago

More than likely, Google's lawyers were worried about DA's in various US states, cities or feds going after them. This has little or nothing to do with "morality" or "ethics." This is CYA, not a moral panic.

slavik81• 7 years ago

It has become a real problem for Canadians visiting the States[1]. The US government doesn't seem to care whether it's legal in Canada or not. Presumably that's because the law is written such that foreign legality is irrelevant.

[1] https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/07/05/canadian-cannab...

fuzz4lyfe• 7 years ago

I'd hope they would apply this rule to people who engage in sex tourism with children, legal in that nation or not for example. At the federal level the crime of cannabis distribution is on the same level as that.

klausjensen• 7 years ago

I looked it up so you don't have to: CYA => Cover Your Ass. :)

michaelbuckbee• 7 years ago

This is a matter of geographic laws conflicting with worldwide applicability and something we're seeing more and more of, both with things like GDPR but also certain states having much tighter regulations around things like biometrics. In that light, it's interesting to see what Google has done with things like their Arts and Culture app, which has a "take a selfie and see what artwork you most resemble" feature. That feature (but not the whole app) is disabled if they detect that you're within the bounds of Illinois which has some of the strictest regulations about personal data.

notus• 7 years ago

It's dumb, but all they have to do is put the shopping cart on a responsive website instead, minor inconvenience.

GreaterFool• 7 years ago

I've been spending some time in California and I noticed a worrying trend that it gets harder and harder to purchase marijuana. ID requirements are getting more onerous, MasterCard no longer accepted, etc. Things are going backwards!

callmeal• 7 years ago

Dispensaries cannot accept credit cards because the federal banking system is off limits to them. But as far as id requirements go, you can walk into any dispensary with a valid California drivers license (haven't really tried with out of state ones), and cash purchase anything they have in stock.

wcarron• 7 years ago

ID requirements more onerous? Not sure what you mean. You simply need to show a State ID verifying you are 21 or older. I've sure noticed many more dispensaries requiring ID instead of just..."forgetting to check", but that's not the same thing.

Kinnard• 7 years ago

Well, this is a request for a startup!

harry82• 7 years ago

Better ban signal. Do you want that wrapped in "fighting terrorism", "war on drugs" or "think of the children".

We google should not be in a position of power to decide what is allowable and what is not. That is for elected officials. If they have more than reasonable influence, break them up.

Same for any group of people anywhere. Get elected.

plemer• 7 years ago

By using their services, we elect them.

Still, yes, citizens could attempt to effect government intervention.

But probably the average person has more leverage as a consumer than as a political actor.

harry82• 7 years ago

Nope. They have market power.

If there's 30 equivalent services to choose from and using none is also a viable option there's no market power and no issue. I hope they get rich without market power but it's of no significance to me.

As soon as they (for all values of they) have market power and can have a huge effect over what you can and can't do - they need to be bound by law and regulation. This is the textbook definition of market failure. Libertarians and Bernie should see it much the same way. I personally believe you keep regulation the hell out it until you have market failure (so I'm not with bernie) - which this is, they're enacting defacto laws and taxes on the population here for an agenda not agreed to by that population. Same as if standard oil could tell you where you could drive your car. Same as if your electricity company could tell you what you are allowed to read with your electric lights. Same as if your phone company dropped your call for saying "fk" out loud.

Market failure is a thing that happens often (public goods, property rights enforcement, industries that tend to monopoly) and we bring in regulation when it does and watch those regulators closely(!!) We have elections to make sure the regulation is done in a way that we can live with.

tssva• 7 years ago

Elected officials in Google's home country have made the decision. They decided to make marijuana illegal at the national level, they decided to make facilitating financial transactions supporting sales of illegal drugs also illegal and they have repeatedly choosen not to change those laws. More recently elected officials have decided to appoint law enforcement officials that are less willing to overlook violation of federal drug laws in states that have legalized marijuana at a state level. It is this later move which has most likely made Google decide to make the changes in their content policy. So in effect Google is doing exactly as you suggested, allowing elected officials to make this decision.

DonHopkins2• 7 years ago

I can't use gmail to communicate with my weed dealer any more? Damn.

julienreszka• 7 years ago

Just build progressive web apps already, break app store duopoly

eadmund• 7 years ago

A key difference between Android and iOS: on Android, there are alternatives to Google’s app store; on iOS there are not. So it would be entirely possible for someone who lives in a country where marijuana is legal and wishes to facilitate the legal industry there to set up an app store (cloning F-Droid could be a quick start) which offered such apps. He'd be out of luck on iOS.

The federal marijuana laws are — mostly — blatantly unconstitutional, of course, but they are still on the books. I don't blame Google for not wanting to litigate the issue; their lawyers are probably acutely aware of the Backpage case.

villgax• 7 years ago

Is Messenger getting banned?

pythonwutang• 7 years ago

Are these apps available on the Apple App Store?

jammygit4• 7 years ago

I’m literally texting a friend today about helping him with his legal Canadian pot site. The importance of the “open web” sure got more concrete today

What is the real world small business alternative to the play Store - progressive web apps? Fdroid?

Jerbyjoober• 7 years ago

But yet they have booze delivery apps all throughout the Play Store. They said no cannabis because the Play Store is for kids. But I suppose quick booze delivery is fine for "their" kids.

“At Google Play, we’re committed to providing a positive, safe environment for children and families,” the blog post read. “…After taking input from users and developers we are evolving our Google Play policies to provide additional protections for children and families.”

ryanthedev• 7 years ago

Time to convert to PWAs

dredmorbius• 7 years ago

PWA?

Google bans apps that facilitate sale of marijuana

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