Do not tell your expected salary. Let a company make an offer first

https://twitter.com/MichaelBabich/status/1129928135879872512

by Mikho • 7 years ago

16 21 7 years ago

Mikho3• 7 years ago

Learned this trick long ago. Used this to clearly see whether a company values the job to be done and how it treats people. Just let the company make an offer and it will be a good ground for further negotiations. The number states pretty obviously what the company is about. If it tries to just use you and squeeze the money, maybe this is not a company to work for. it doesn't value people and results of their job.

itake• 7 years ago

On the other side of the coin, I don't want to waste time if myself and the company are not in the same ball park. A lot of recruiters have passed on me because I was asking above their salary range.

lkiernan• 7 years ago

You can talk about their range though. No hard feelings if they can't afford you.

save_ferris• 7 years ago

I always ask recruiters for a salary range when they want to discuss an opportunity. That way, you don't have to give away your negotiating position while finding out up front if the opportunity is a good fit for you. If they won't provide you with that information, they're not worth working with.

kingnothing• 7 years ago

In California, companies are legally obligated to tell you the salary range if you ask, and they cannot ask what you make at your current position. Use that to your advantage.

java-man2• 7 years ago

reference?

diggernet• 7 years ago

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...

iamNumber4• 7 years ago

Whoever states a number first looses the negotiation!

joezydeco2• 7 years ago

Right. So you should spend about a collective day of your time talking to the recruiter and doing the initial phone screens, then spend a second physical day off of work (oh, sorry, "dentist appointment") interviewing.

Do the day of answering the same questions over and over, code your red-black tree balancing exercise, ace the interview.

After all that, get the offer and find out it's 25% less than you're making now.

Good luck.

w0uld• 7 years ago

I ask the recruiter up front what the salary range is for the job to avoid the scenario you outline. I'm surprised how often they give me an answer. It's saved us both a lot of time.

joezydeco2• 7 years ago

That's kind of my point, although recruiters tend to get slippery here with language like "it's <x-y> but if you're good we are flexible"...then you find out they're not.

soganess• 7 years ago

This.

Advice that is the equivalent to "wait and see" can be thought of as, not only wrong, but actively working against the candidate.

So you do all that upfront legwork, jump through a bunch fo hoops and only for offer is well below expectations. If you knew this number at the start you would have politely declined but now you find yourself in a sunk cost conundrum and say yes when you really should be saying no.

Mikho3• 7 years ago

Or be proactive and ask what is the salary range the company plans for the position from the get-go. It's not a prisoners dilemma -- make your own proactive move and decision.

Technically, considering both a company and a candidate are in the same ballpark as to salary range, salary expectation is the only leverage a candidate has left for further negotiations. There is no reason to give away every single leverage. Everything else a candidate will provide during the interview process. Expected salary is the only thing left unknown to a recruiter.

ducttape12• 7 years ago

I've always just given my current salary when I'm asked about compensation. Yes, it somewhat anchors me, but it ensures that the recruiters / company I'm talking to and I aren't wasting our time and it doesn't force me to give a range.

Also, don't be afraid to walk away from a position if they're under cutting you. My current role did that; I told them no. They called back a day later and brought me in at a higher position with higher pay (but oddly enough no real change in responsibilities)

apl002• 7 years ago

I actually dont mind this question at all. When i passed all the interviews for my current gig, i did a lot of research on what the standard pay for my position was across all the big tech companies in different cities and then I added an extra 10%-15% on top of that when this question came up.

I know I asked for more than they budgeted for my position cause they were a bit taken aback with my request. However, I justified it with data points and informed them of perks I had at my previous gig that they did not have. They came back with a slightly lower offer that my original request and I accepted in a heartbeat. My pay increase from my previous job to this one was a HUGE jump and I was happy.

If you make it to the negotiation phase, dont be afraid to ask for a lot. They clearly want you at this point. If they had a budget for the position they wanted to stay in, they should have come out first and said but IMO, gave me the upper hand to set the table stakes.

Im not looking for a company to come out with a salary so I know if they "value" me after me 5-6 interviews. I know what im worth and I prefer to drive to what I am happy with.

huntsman2• 7 years ago

I feel this hard rule of never mentioning a salary as candidate is too simplistic.

There's certainly the risk of lowballing yourself if you don't understand your market worth but there's also the opportunity to anchor the starting point of the negotiation.

Learning the strategies for successful negotiations is a skill a recommend everyone to look into. Skills in this area can have a very high payoff in your professional and personal life.

Mikho3• 7 years ago

huntsman2• 7 years ago

My point is that being first to name a number isn't necessarily "giving away" your leverage. If you give too low a number you certainly may be, but naming a number could also Anchor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring) the negotiation at a higher point.

Lets say you've done your research and you know the company pays $160k-$200k for this position and you've done interviews and they want to hire you.

They want a number from you of expectations.

Sure, saying $160k is dumb and you've lost out. Refusing to say anything might get you $180k.

But if you are confident in your knowledge of the ranges putting out $240k as your starting number may be a good strategy. Sure if you got it wrong they might have offered you more but unlikely. But more likely the recruiter is now in the position to try and negotiate you down to their salary range vs you having to negotiate them up.

All of this is somewhat situation dependent but my point is that absolutist advice on never be the first to name a number is not always correct.

joelx• 7 years ago

I have hired over 200 people. Don't follow ridiculous advice like this. Just ask for what you want, even if it's high.

mathgladiator• 7 years ago

I do, but what I ask for is so high that it saves time on both sides.

Do not tell your expected salary. Let a company make an offer first

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