Airport Made Fence Holes for Planespotting Photographers

https://petapixel.com/2019/05/22/this-airport-made-fence-holes-for-planespotting-photographers/

by sohkamyung • 7 years ago

147 108 7 years ago

elicash• 7 years ago

Reminds me of https://www.pinterest.com/pin/252342385347648601/

softgrow• 7 years ago

Not a new idea, Tokyo Narita has had holes, benches, vending machines etc for ages https://www.narita-airport.jp/en/fun/view/ The only thing they could possibly do more are cabins for the cold in winter. Still low cost and makes the airport's position on photography clear, friendly...

Tor3• 7 years ago

I was just thinking about Narita and then I saw your post come up. I've spent a lot of time there, I used to fly through Narita and I had to wait six or seven hours for my next flight. My body was at night time biologically, and after a long flight it was a very hard wait. Until the time I found that open air view deck. Fresh air, daylight, all of it made it easier. And I noticed the photo-friendly fence too. Gave me something to do.

mgramsey• 7 years ago

I wish more airports embraced planespotting! I enjoy planespotting at SFO regularly- I go to Bayfront park and get decent views of traffic departing/arriving the 28s (longest runways).

joezydeco3• 7 years ago

The best is Frankfurt, where you can actually go out onto the roof of the terminal without needing a ticket. It costs a small fee and you need to pass through a metal detector, but it beats sitting in a parking lot trying to get a view of the traffic.

maxxxxx3• 7 years ago

Stuttgart has or at least used to have a viewing deck too. My favorite place as a kid.

souprock4• 7 years ago

The best is a house near an airport. I just look out my back window. So far the interesting ones have been the An-225, the Piaggio P.180 Avanti, the E-4B, the F-35A, the F-22, the V-22, the CH-47, the A-10, the B-25, the B-2, powered parachutes, Air Force One, Trump Force One, and all the teen series fighters. We didn't see it fly, but the YAL-1 also seems to have visited.

When I lived in previous houses: the Goodyear blimp, the Space Shuttle (up and down)

I bet you never get the Space Shuttle in Frankfurt.

gpm• 7 years ago

At Pearson (Toronto) there is a bike trail that goes through multiple layers of barbed wire fences, and right by the end of some runways. I estimate you are within 50 feet of the landing planes (straight underneath them).

It doesn't have a great view other then that really, but I think that's a pretty cool unique view.

yread• 7 years ago

Schiphol also has a platform, it's free and there is a Fokker F-100 you can climb into

GauntletWizard2• 7 years ago

Have you tried from the top of the San Mateo BART parking structure? The BART structure has a killer view straight up Runway 1. I am no planespotter, but I used to wander up there just to enjoy the view and clear my head.

sand500• 7 years ago

Do you mean Millbrae Bart?

_ph_• 7 years ago

Munich has a separate visitors center, including a small hill between the runways nicely overlooking the airport.

Stratoscope• 7 years ago

Scroll to the end for a frightening contrast with the TSA poster of a terrorist photographer:

Don't let our planes get into the wrong hands. If you question it, report it. Call local law enforcement. Report to your airport manager.

And you know he's a terrorist because he is pointing a telephoto lens at an airplane!

joezydeco3• 7 years ago

We found a compromise in our city where plane spotters register with the local police and can be in certain areas outside the airport boundaries.

The program labels itself an "Airport Watch" like a community watch but, really, it's just so everyone is less suspicious of each other. But I suppose if we actually saw something odd we would phone it in between swapping our lenses.

dingaling• 7 years ago

Those sorts of schemes alao exist in the UK even though it's prefectly legal to spot from public land outside an airport.

But there is a disturbing flipside to such groups; I was once 'questioned' by police outside London Gatwick because some members of London Airport Watch had reported me due to my 'Irish' accent. But they gave the impression that such reports were more to harrass and deter non-local enthusiasts. You'd think that airline enthusiasts of all people would be open and inclusive, but sadly not.

dontbenebby7• 7 years ago

Ironically it's probably good to have these folks around. If someone breached the perimeter, they might be the ones to raise the alarm - you can't patrol the entire fence.

I knew people who did urban exploration in undergrad, and there were a few times they picked up a payphone to alert about things like water leaks, termites, or when they once ran into someone they suspected was burgling.

Smart institutions know that respecting harmless folks can pay dividends.

keyle• 7 years ago

He's wearing a hoodie, shady people wear hoodies! Sad times.

wahern2• 7 years ago

Shady people do wear hoodies. Sometimes non-shady people do, too. But imagine you're a convenience store clerk, are you going to be more suspicious of the person with a hoodie or a person without, all else being equal?

Sometimes people wear hoodies just because they feel self-conscious or don't want to feel exposed or vulnerable. No coincidence that it's mostly teenagers and young people who wear hoodies. That's understandable. But it's also fair for people to be suspicious of people not willing to expose themselves to public scrutiny.

There's a correlation between diverse societies and smiling. Why? Because smiling is a compensatory signal in environments prone to heightened suspicion or stress. Hoodies disrupt this and other social signaling mechanisms. Humans evolved extremely expressive facial signaling mechanisms, afterall, many of which are subconscious.

maxxxxx3• 7 years ago

I don’t get it. Do terrorists watch airports with their big lenses? Is this a real risk?

reallydontask2• 7 years ago

All is fair in love and security theatre, I suppose

Sharlin• 7 years ago

It doesn't matter how real a risk it is. It's "suspicious" and that's plenty enough cause to harass people in the post-9/11 security theatre. Nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM, and [almost] nobody ever got fired for being "too cautious".

0xffff2• 7 years ago

At this point my baseline assumption is that anything that receives TSA attention is not a real risk. What this is is a concrete thing that they can point to to justify their existence, even if the thing isn't a real threat and shouldn't actually help to justify their existence.

dx034• 7 years ago

At London trainstations, police asks you to notify them if you're a train spotter. That way they won't bother you (unless you start taking pictures of the infrastructure instead of trains) and you can help them reporting suspicious behaviour (as someone waiting for trains most of the time).

It's all about communication. If people see the police as their partner, they'll be happy to help them do their job (at least in the UK).

Nextgrid• 7 years ago

Why would taking pictures of the infrastructure be illegal?

scarejunba• 7 years ago

In Japan, I took photographs of trains, buses, railway lines with no one on them, and the police just ignored me or smiled and gave me a thumbs up.

Interestingly, if I had to rate the approachability of cops, I'd put Japan > UK >> USA. And tbh, that's far down the list. In America, you try to avoid the police, even if you're law abiding. In the UK, you might have a chat.

jstanley• 7 years ago

If people see the police as their partner, they'll be happy to help them do their job (at least in the UK).

Unfortunately, that ship sailed long ago when the police stopped treating the community as their partner and started treating people with suspicion by default.

village-idiot4• 7 years ago

The police and the citizenry have massively different relationships in the UK and US. UK police appear to be far more trusted and liked by their citizens than American ones are.

Also, they appear to shoot their citizens less often, which probably helps.

dontbenebby7• 7 years ago

At London trainstations, police asks you to notify them if you're a train spotter

Isn't this solved fairly easily?

"Whatcha upto mate?"

"Photographing the trains. I like trains"

"Oh one of those. Off I go!"

I don't know how that interaction would go in the UK, but I think in the states it would start fairly aggressively (demanding ID/barking orders), which in turn makes people who like to photograph infrastructure for artistic reasons dig their heels in, say they have a right to photograph in public, and refuse additional questions.

wool_gather• 7 years ago

And so...wouldn't the first thing that someone with malicious intent would do be to tell the police "I'm totally a trainspotter"?

FabHK3• 7 years ago

you know he's a terrorist because he is pointing a telephoto lens at an airplane

I picked up my brother at SFO a few years ago, and walked around outside the airport terminal building to get a good view of the runway and take a picture of the Lufthansa A380 my brother was landing in, when an SUV pulled up with security and asked me what I was doing and told me to go away. Not a restricted area or anything. Maybe I got the benefit of the doubt (not being detained and all) because I just had a smartphone, no telephoto lens.

weka• 7 years ago

You can't expect logic from people all the time. Why both making it restricted area if they can have some schmuck in a SUV pull up every time someone enters?

hammock• 7 years ago

For more info, see this TSA document that lists the "Eight Signs of Terrorism" for general aviation (page 11) https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/2017_ga_security_gui...

1. Surveillance 2. Elicitation 3. Tests of Security 4. Funding 5. Supplies 6. Suspicious people 7. Rehearsal 8. Deployment

d33• 7 years ago

That doesn't sound like them describing themselves at all...

dmolony• 7 years ago

I'm pretty sure Australia has done this for 40+ years.

stephen_g• 7 years ago

We don't have holes at ours (BNE/YBBN) but there is an area with free car parking and a concrete pad on a raised area where you get a pretty good view, and can put a ladder to get an unobstructed view. If there's a really interesting aircraft movement you often get six or seven people with ladders and a whole bunch of others around.

perilunar• 7 years ago

Same at Sydney Airport (SYD/YSSY). There's even a guide with a map:

https://www.sydneyairport.com.au/corporate/sustainability/co...

jakecopp• 7 years ago

Not in Sydney as far as I know. I'd love a lens portal at the "Planespotting beach" (-33.947075,151.168389)

unfunco• 7 years ago

There's another quite good view at Maho Beach in Saint Martin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maho_Beach#/media/File:Corsair...

andrewjmyers• 7 years ago

In my hometown we actually put a park on airport property with a great view of both of our runways. It has a raised "tower" that streams a live feed of the local ATC. Benches, picnic tables, shaded areas, it's honestly one of my favorite spots locally.

Video (city government quality): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReeLuUh8qB4

CaptainZapp• 7 years ago

Zurich airport had this for (literally) decades.

They also put a page together specifically for plane spotters.[1]

[1] https://www.zurich-airport.com/passengers-and-visitors/shopp...

config_yml• 7 years ago

They built a little hill so spotters can overlook the runway and fences from a higher position. There‘s also an old MI-8 next to it that was converted to a snack bar, it‘s pretty sweet to hang out for the day.

mxfh• 7 years ago

Whatever happened to observation decks open to the public? Tegel has one, and I remember one in Frankfurt

Looking at this they seem somewhat of a german specialty, but now with entry fees at bigger locations.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/hobica/2013/1...

mto• 7 years ago

Yeah in Vienna, Austria we also got a little hill (and also those holes for ages)

Amboto2205• 7 years ago

If that's the height at which they are placed, isn't it a bit low for most shooters?

widforss• 7 years ago

Interesting that the uppermost photo depicts what is decidedly not a hole in the fence. Great idea otherwise!

dsl• 7 years ago

If you scroll down to the second photo it has the hole cut out. I think the first image was an installation shot.

stunt2• 7 years ago

Also an example of design for safety or prevention through design. It is much easier for them to monitor 10 whitelisted spots and mark everything else as a blacklist.

lolc• 7 years ago

What gave you the idea that other places would not be allowed anymore? How would safety be impaired by photographers outside fences?

stunt2• 7 years ago

What gave you the idea that other places would not be allowed anymore?

Well, that's similar to crowd control. They can't block other areas. But there will be less traffic and different monitoring and control requirements for those areas.

How would safety be impaired by photographers outside fences?

You could use photography as a good cover to do other stuff. For instance, controlling an amateur drone or collecting intel for airport robbery.

I assume it would make sense to monitor activities around the airport fences.

Theodores2• 7 years ago

Actually the design of the fence is wrong, every gap should be big enough for a camera lens. If they don't want people in some areas they need a solid wall or dense vegetation.

A few decades ago someone decided chain link fences should be at a 2" hole size which worked well for keeping tennis and other balls going astray. In other applications they just use the standard stuff. Nobody had cameras in 1941 or whenever it was this fencing became popular, so 2" holes have persisted, QWERTY style.

You would need a different machine for making a 10cm hole size but it would be cheaper.

michaelt• 7 years ago

Perhaps they chose a hole size that's hard to fit a shoe into, to make climbing over difficult?

Of course, dense vegetation would be even better, as you say.

Multicomp• 7 years ago

I recently discovered jetphotos.com and I have to wonder if airports doing things like this help that and similar sites due to convenient positioning, or if it makes all the photos 'the same' and thus quickly loses most of it's usefulness?

Not a plane spotter myself... My 18-55mm Nikon lense can barely see straight.

aplc0r• 7 years ago

Minneapolis (MSP) has a decent viewing area. No holes in the fence, but most spotters just stand on the tables or benches. The location is the best part since it is essentially in the center of the airfield.

https://goo.gl/maps/3UnYMTtBo77va5qu7

Airport Made Fence Holes for Planespotting Photographers

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