MDMA as a Probe and Treatment for Social Behaviors (2016)

https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S0092-8674(16)30853-4

by bookofjoe • 7 years ago

91 55 7 years ago

empath75• 7 years ago

How have we come to a point where we are arguing that a DEA schedule 1 drug (i.e., no accepted medical use) may be among the most promising lead therapies for psychiatric disease and a powerful probe of important brain functions?

I’ll make the observation that if recreational drugs weren’t doing interesting things to the brain, people wouldn’t use them, but psychedelics in particular do near miraculous seeming things with reproducibility that prescription drug companies would kill for in a candidate for a commercial drug.

doitLP3• 7 years ago

What reproducibility are you referring to?

LSD was marketed as a medicine under the name Delysid for over 10 years mid-century but only afterward did it gain a schedule 1 classification after it was declared to have no medical uses.

leoh• 7 years ago

LSD almost certainly has medical value when administered properly; viz. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Experiment?wpro.... It was banned in spite of its medical potential, not because of it.

bookofjoe2• 7 years ago

http://www.drsessa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Delysid-19...

yboris• 7 years ago

LSD cured alcoholism with high success rate.

temp999904• 7 years ago

I’m a fan of MDMA but be warned you need to know what you’re doing and be well-prepared before and after due to the neurotoxic side effects which may permanently lower your ability to produce serotonin. Also cannot/should not take it more than a few times a year with at least 3-4 months between doses.

worik2• 7 years ago

"due to the neurotoxic side effects"

Have you a reference for a study on that toxicity?

temp999904• 7 years ago

There’s a ton of research online...

https://dancesafe.org/drug-information/is-mdma-neurotoxic/

beenBoutIT5• 7 years ago

Until it gets legalized reagent kits and pill reports are the best way to verify active ingredients. https://www.ecstasydata.org/ https://dancesafe.org/shop/

ParanoidShroom2• 7 years ago

There is a beta app for reverse image searching pills. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.harmreducti...

Its still very alpha, but could make it easier for people that don't have access to kits.

It's not chemical validation tho.

deepakhj• 7 years ago

https://www.wired.com/2003/09/ecstasy-study-botched-retracte...

easymodex• 7 years ago

From what I've researched it's minimum 2-4 weeks between doses (I go for 4 to be on the safe side). Vitamin C or fruits rich with it should be taken before and during consumption for protection from oxidative stress. And of course moderation, mdma has a sweet spot in dosage so taking more won't really increase the positive effects. For the "hangover" in the day/s after 5-htp does wonders. That's my anecdotal safe mdma recipe.

tempguy99999• 7 years ago

Hmm. your handle is strangely similar to mine. Whatever.

Anyway I disagree with your claim of neurotoxicity which you don't justify. If you make a claim, back it up otherwise it's FUD.

Here's some actual data mostly opposing that, and a very interesting story of the US government keeping a pet researcher who'll report whatever they want <https://thedea.org/mdma-risks-science-and-statistics-technic.... It's a good read.

Also cannot/should not take it more than a few times a year with at least 3-4 months between doses.

Justify this. With facts.

trashE• 7 years ago

Are you suggesting to drip feed this in the water supply of rats

krilly• 7 years ago

People who take it every weekend will get a kind of permanent tolerance where they'll never feel the magic again no matter how long they wait. And apparently permanently affect their ability to feel happiness.

This is common knowledge in the drugs community and harm reduction sources frequently quote the 3 month thing, although I'm not sure where it originally came from.

GorgeRonde2• 7 years ago

Took 1/10th of a dose during a party (where everybody was doing it).

I did not feel high but was very unanxious (absolutely no adrenalin rush when 2 guys started a fight near me).

Now the problem is that I started to grind my teeth for one year on after that night.

So basically I did not get high but managed to fuck my teeth pretty badly (now 5 years later I'm considering orthodontia since my lower jaw bone has moved left with respect to the upper part of my mouth).

So yeah. MDMA. What a fun substance.

tempguy99999• 7 years ago

It doesn't give you much of a rush anyway.

Now the problem is that I started to grind my teeth for one year on after that night.

1/10th dose and a year later you get grindy-jaw, and you're linking those???

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism> "Bruxism is a common behavior; reports of prevalence range from 8% to 31% in the general population"

Even I have it and it started 20 years before I took my first E - but I guess evil MDMA can reach back through time just as easily as it reaches forward.

Hint 1: 99.9999% sure they're unrelated. Hint 2: see your dentist who will tell you the same. Hint 3: it may be stress <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism#Psychosocial_factors>

netwanderer3• 7 years ago

That's why they have been doing these clinical trial studies on real patients in helping them to treat their PTSD. Last I read the results have been very positive and it is now currently at Phase 3.

The negative stories we often heard from the news most likely resulted from the unknown substances that often got mixed into the drug. This was possible precisely because of the fact that MDMA is still illegal and unregulated. When you leave such a profitable business open in the wild like that, greedy criminals are free to commit any types of harmful actions with disregard to other people's health, just to achieve their next target profit level. Under such environment and conditions, of course it's normal that all we would hear about are just bad stories. Over time this has established a somewhat false negative feedback loop that makes it difficult for the public to break away from or be rightly informed.

At least the idea of just being open and willing to try will pave the way for more of future researches. There is no denying MDMA DOES provide many benefits in some ways. If our brain reacts to the drug by producing happy chemicals and positive feelings then naturally it must benefit us human to some degree. In my opinion this is simply the law of nature and how our universe works. Similar to as when you consuming something bad or not good for your health, your body will attempt to signal by making you either sick, vomiting out, or just feeling overall terrible.

Of course just like everything in life, MDMA does carry some negative properties as well. Perhaps further researches will allow new discoveries and enable combinations of different drugs in order to help lessen its negative side effects. However, that would only be possible if more people are willing to open their mind first. This is a great start and an inflection point.

FYI, here is the link to an article I came across a few months ago. The author will take you through a great short journey in which he himself experienced and show you how much it has helped his life. It's quite an interesting read: https://medium.com/@tuckermax/what-mdma-therapy-did-for-me-4...

golergka3• 7 years ago

MDMA, better known as the recreational drug “ecstasy,”
clubgoers and college students primarily know MDMA as “ecstasy”

Not exactly. "Ecstasy" is usually the name of pills that have MDMA as a main ingridient, but also often contain MDA, amphetamine, methamphetamine, mephedrone and other similar drugs.

If you consider consuming MDMA, always search the pure crystal MDMA if you can, by the way. It's usually these other ingredients (mixed in to "push through" a user's tolerance level) that are responsible for the worst of adverse effects and neurotoxicity.

tempguy99999• 7 years ago

I had some pills, supposedly E tabs, which gave me a quick up. Nice, but they weren't pure MDMA though it took me a fair while to realise that.

I suspect, without evidence, that they had methamphetamine mixed in (they started working in as little as 10 minutes). That benefits the dealer as they clearly "work" so no complaints from the buyers, and in a strange way may benefit the user as they won't start popping more because they think they have a dud, and real MDMA takes maybe 25 to 45 minutes to start, and the effects cam be subtle and overlooked particularly if you are new to them.

It's a strange argument, and please note I use the word 'benefit' here in a very odd way - meth is neurotoxic, so it's really not the right word. And mixing random stuff in, also bad.

Also, I once was given an E which was huge, I broke it into quarters and that may have saved me a trip to hospital or the morgue. It was vastly too strong. Also had some other tabs which I suspect were pure meth (I'm guessing but they are the only thing that I could find described that started working so fast, and caused bruxism) which I thankfully broke in half. They were overwhelmingly strong.

So the advice to break up tabs and take the pieces slowly (and don't assume pill A has the same composition or strength as pill B apparently from the same batch) is very well founded. It has definitely saved me hospital trips and wasting NHS money. You have an entire night, don't rush!

golergka3• 7 years ago

There's an excellent word in Russian, кайфожор, (I can't adequately translate to English - it's more or less "glutton of high"), which describes behaviour that stands behind most of drug user's health problems. Basically, it's a desire to get high, on anything, at any cost, which drives people to do the most stupid things with alcohol and drugs. Sadly, that's also the most paying client base, so you see a lot of drug producers catering to this audience specifically, always emphasising the strength of substances as a primary selling point. Among hundreds of shops on the marketplace, 99% talk about how strong their stuff is and how it can beat tolerance and almost none - about health.

MDMA as a Probe and Treatment for Social Behaviors (2016)

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