PayPal Suspends WikiLeaks Account

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/04/paypal-suspends-wikileaks-account/

by malte • 16 years ago

99 73 16 years ago

thelede.blogs.nytimes.com

A lot of corporations are coming out against Wikileaks, and I don't feel the same way. What are they considering that I'm not

stretchwithme• 16 years ago

They're considering how uncomfortable it is to have their arms twisted.

kmfrk• 16 years ago

Letting PayPal keep all Wikileaks' donation money for themselves is not exactly something that requires that much arm-twisting. They've done it before, and now they have a scapegoat.

DougBTX• 16 years ago

Well, that's the point. They don't want you considering their secrets.

billmcneale2• 16 years ago

WikiLeaks is violating the terms of service of most of the companies they are trying to use, so their accounts get shut down.

This has nothing to do with censorship nor giving in to political pressure, stop seeing conspiracies everywhere.

kilian2• 16 years ago

I just donated via Paypal yesterday. Guess I'll donate again, but via credit card, today.

config_yml• 16 years ago

that's what I did as well. Plus I cancelled my PayPal account.

galactus• 16 years ago

So did I. I wonder if wikileaks will still get that money.

lwhi2• 16 years ago

Where exactly will that money go??

kilian2• 16 years ago

As usual, probably collecting interest for paypal. I made a formal complaint demanding it back. If they don't reply timely I'm deleting my account.

jessor2• 16 years ago

Paypal also took the account of the Wau Holland Stiftung because they collect money for wikileaks.

PayPal told us we are "in violation of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy regarding (...) financial support to Wikileaks" and took our account. http://twitter.com/#!/wauland/status/10987193778569216

aw3c2• 16 years ago

The next stop would be check their database for all account that ever sent money to Wikileaks or the Wau Holland Stiftung and close those too. And then the ones who ever send money to those.

kgarten• 16 years ago

PayPal went over board with this, as the Wau Holland Foundation just gave money to Wikileaks for a specific purpose holding them accountable for any spendings. It is impossible to argue that the money from the foundation was used for any illegal/criminal activity.

trevelyan• 16 years ago

I donated and have written Paypal to ask for clarification on why the account was closed and what their policy is for returning the money or seeing it through to the intended recipient, etc.

Hopefully others who donated will do this as well so that there are at least some customer service costs associated with this. As you mention, there doesn't seem to be much if any illegality about the activities that I can spot, and fair use for political speech covers the rest.

acabal• 16 years ago

Paypal suspends my account at least once a month just because I sometimes use a different IP when logging in, I'm honestly shocked they didn't do this to Wikileaks earlier.

jessor2• 16 years ago

They did: http://slashdot.org/story/10/01/23/2138204/PayPal-Freezes-th...

navyrain• 16 years ago

Being frustrated with PayPal's poor support, but pleased with its ubiquity, this was an lost opportunity for PayPal to earn my goodwill. I, for one, am advocating against paypal from now on.

csomar• 16 years ago

Please don't blame PayPal that much. If you have been in their situation, you'll very likely do the same. So if you have any issues, go and blame the US gov.

cubicle673• 16 years ago

er, no. I blame PayPal fully.

iwr2• 16 years ago

While PayPal deserves the negative rep for screwing their customers, it doesn't deserve it for being a US corporation, vulnerable to the US government. The bad guy here is not PayPal.

random42• 16 years ago

Well, I hope all this does not come as a surprise to Wikileaks.

They are essentially screwing the US government, and using services (Paypal, Amazon etc.) which are incorporated in the US, and operates under the US regulations.

Roritharr2• 16 years ago

I just closed my PayPal account because of this.

Here is a direct Link if you want to do it yourself. https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_close-account

cubicle673• 16 years ago

Already done when I first heard about it.

The link is useful though; I ended up using one from a different source because I couldn't figure out at all how to close my account

kzar• 16 years ago

I'd just donated to Wikileaks and PayPal wont let me close my account until next week when it's cleared. I hope they actually see the money :o

steveklabnik4• 16 years ago

Thanks. The direct link was the difference between me closing it right now, and me saying "I'm going to," and then forgetting.

sgrove• 16 years ago

I just closed my account, sent them and email, and retweeted the link. Thanks for putting it there?

Vivtek7• 16 years ago

I can't close my PayPal account yet (although I will be encouraging my European customers to move to Moneybookers), but ... there's no way to email them about their own corporate actions. Does anybody know of an email address that I can just address with a complaint? Although a paper letter with a real stamp may get their attention more effectively...

Roritharr2• 16 years ago

Moneybookers already blocked Wikileaks. Sorry :(

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/14/wikileaks-says-f...

hackermom• 16 years ago

I'm surprised PayPal didn't "bend over" sooner on this one. No more will I use PayPal.

bjonathan• 16 years ago

Huge marketing opportunity for WePay! (and also a huge opportunity to do the right thing)

buro9• 16 years ago

Are WePay being used by Wikileaks?

How will WePay as a US company offer any real guarantee not to do the same?

Can WePay make any commitment or guarantee given that they are integrated into a system and other entities (i.e. Visa, Mastercard, etc) could pull their plug over this?

I'm really just curious. If WePay honestly will do the right thing and treat money as money regardless of how people choose to spend it (the whole thing here... porn, politics, etc) and to do so with a real guarantee that means this can never happen, then I just do not see how this is any opportunity for them.

nerfhammer• 16 years ago

And how will WePay's board like this idea?

Flow• 16 years ago

Considering PayPal is actually a real bank in many countries, can they really discriminate like this without a proper legal process first?

robryan• 16 years ago

Since when can what Wikileaks does be considered criminal activity? I'd think that it's at least not clear cut enough that companies would wait for some kind of conviction before labeling it all illegal/criminal activity.

randallsquared• 16 years ago

Er, PayPal has only ever needed vague suspicion to close an account and keep the money.

gbrindisi• 16 years ago

I am reading a lot of boycott statement against Paypal in the comments – and I fully understand – but guys... where have you been when Amazon refused to host Wikileaks? And what about EasyDNS?

Paypal is a company doing business and I dislike them as much as you do but please don't forget that Government >> Company. Always.

dualogy2• 16 years ago

Isn't that the very problem Wikileaks is showcasing here?

steveplace• 16 years ago

FYI: EasyDNS had nothing to do with this, it was a misprint by some online journalists.

Source: http://blog.easydns.org/2010/12/03/wikileaks-takedown-fiasco...

X-Istence• 16 years ago

s/EasyDNS/EveryDNS/

Please don't confuse the two because of shoddy reporting! EasyDNS is being dragged through the mud unfairly...

euccastro• 16 years ago

I closed my Amazon account too.

steveklabnik4• 16 years ago

Amazon is much harder for me to move away from than PayPal. with PayPal, I just transfer my money out and click the cancel button.

With Amazon, I have to re-do my entire deployment setup, since Heroku has made it so freaking easy. Not to mention migrate all of my addon accounts too... significantly more complicated.

I'll still do it, it just won't happen today.

Vivtek7• 16 years ago

I have the same problem with PayPal. 70% of my income comes from Europe through PayPal. I'm seriously considering moving to Moneybookers, though, for my European customers. This really stinks.

B1865• 16 years ago

Have you legally donated money via paypal that has been frozen? Perhaps if you had you would be quite disgusted!!

veeti• 16 years ago

There's a mistake in this article: Wikileaks DNS wasn't provided by EasyDNS, but by EveryDNS.

vaksel• 16 years ago

Gotta give props to wikileaks for opening the eyes of many to the type of country they live in.

marquis• 16 years ago

According to wikileaks you can still donate by credit card via https://donations.datacell.com. I'm not clear if the processor is based in Iceland or Switzerland.

lwhi2• 16 years ago

And so, we begin to see the far-fetched narrative of Sandra Bullocks 'The Net' start to swing into full effect.

Who'd have thought it would become so prescient ...

Keyframe2• 16 years ago

TBH, I was amazed they didn't pull the plug sooner, considering all the negativity surrounding paypal. I haven't had any issues with paypal myself, but reading all the stories from other people having issues with them... I don't know, I would really REALLY like to have an alternative somewhere, but sadly there isn't one.

steveklabnik4• 16 years ago

Usually, PayPal is "evil" because of false positives on fraud. They'd know that an account for an organization like WikiLeaks is legit.

There is a YC-company alternative: https://www.wepay.com/

Keyframe2• 16 years ago

I'm sorry, I meant paypal alternative for payments and money transfers through internet, not as a collection/donation service for groups. Sad fact is that nothing is as widespread as paypal. And even paypal doesn't have an option to receive money here (Croatia) because national bank (governs bank policies among other things) wants them to be regulated like other banks here, so they're "talking about it".

To me, it sounds like a pretty obvious route for a startup disruption opportunity. I guess bar is set too high (financially and logistically) for a small-ish startup to make a significant entry to that market (global). There are compatible businesses that could make a significant entry/impact, but they didn't do it (Western Union, Moneybookers, Google Checkout, Amazon...) - I always wondered why (if we choose to ignore the stronghold of ebay paypal has behind it).

patrickaljord• 16 years ago

wepay and paypal would face the same issues of false positive on fraud. The only thing that could help would be the day all banks implements OpenTransact which is basically OAuth for payment http://www.opentransact.org/ with no intermediary between banks, maybe one day... I know Banksimple said they would implement it.

PayPal Suspends WikiLeaks Account

Related Stories