Xi Jinping says Taiwan “must and will be” reunited with China

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-46733174

by happy-go-lucky • 8 years ago

97 65 8 years ago

bbc.com

Reason0772• 8 years ago

Right. Chinese policy regarding Taiwan hasn’t changed then. Not really news.

wallace_f7• 8 years ago

The assertion of a call to action raises tensions and is certainly news.

I fear for the free people of Taiwan.

gammateam• 8 years ago

Never a dull moment to talk about the twilight zone that is Greater China

ccvannorman• 8 years ago

I used to believe China could easily swallow Taiwan in military conflict, but the actual numbers are surprising considering their relative landmasses. Taiwan is not such an easy target to overthrow, and I doubt they'd lay down without a fight.

I found this article to be particularly enlightening:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/25/taiwan-can-win-a-war-wi...

dingaling• 8 years ago

Tangent: 'lay' is transitive and requires an object e.g. 'lay themselves down'

Otherwise use intransitive 'lie' e.g. lie down without a fight.

throwmeback2• 8 years ago

Thanks, IntelliSense!

/s of course, I actually learned from the parent comment lol

flukus2• 8 years ago

Assuming it's a traditional war. They might be able to create the right conditions for Taiwan to request annexation.

There are a lot of mainland Chinese in Taiwan and probably a lot of PRC supporters, some sort of coup, insurrection or civil war could be possible.

It's also possible for China to cripple Taiwan economically, take out some power stations and maybe other infrastructure and their industry collapses. This could even be done by foreign agents, they might not have to fire a shot directly.

Then there's the various cyber-warfare possibilities.

yumraj• 8 years ago

Sounds like empty rhetoric to distract the population from economic slowdown, trade war with US and general negative sentiments related to China both internally and externally.

toasterlovin• 8 years ago

On the other hand, most armed conflicts are preceded by rhetoric of some kind.

gedy• 8 years ago

The "our government represents ALL of China" that both the PRC and ROC gov'ts proclaimed is/was a mistake. China and Taiwan are in practice and reality now two countries, and the people in each don't benefit from the saber rattling.

It would be the same as North or South Korea being the only "Korea" recognized by other governments or UN.

dogma1138• 8 years ago

Taiwan isn’t a member of the UN and is officially recognized by only 16 countries as the most fear pissing off China.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan

They lost their UN seat in 1971 and haven’t been able to regain it since.

With China’s influence especially in Africa and the Middle East growing there is less and less chance of Taiwan being recognized as an independent country without a global conflict or a massive political shift in China.

chewz• 8 years ago

"our government represents ALL of China" and Tibet, Xinjang, Mongolia, Taiwan and HK. China proper isn't such a large country after all.

For centuries China had been expanding and overraching and then collapsing and shrinking. Perhaps we are observing Peak China again?

nutcracker462• 8 years ago

We will soon notice whether the populist West will support government with the consent of the governed or stand by while Taiwan is thrown under the bus.

The history of Crimea indicates that Taiwan's only hope is to aggresively apply violence as necessary for its independence.

wallace_f7• 8 years ago

If America has any earnest, genuine interest in all their wars abroad for freedom and democracy they must continue defense aid to Taiwan.

China's exports are about to surpass the US's. Its growing influence and capability stand in the face of an America that seems determined to tear itself apart rather than be united in the cause of leading the world with virtue of liberty and human rights

rdtsc• 8 years ago

The history of Crimea indicates that Taiwan's only hope is to aggressively apply violence as necessary for its independence.

That's the first thing I thought as well. They watched very closely what happened in Crimea. The timeline also aligns in that Crimea was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Republic in 1954, about when Taiwan had split as well.

What would other countries do if say Chinese soldiers wearing no insignia decide to go on "vacation" to Taiwan all of the sudden.

torben-friis• 8 years ago

We will soon notice whether the populist West will support government with the consent of the governed or stand by while Taiwan is thrown under the bus.

That's unfair, I think. There's a huge gap between "I don't agree with what's happening" and "I'm willing to risk nuclear war defending this cause".

candiodari• 8 years ago

But the west didn't just agree to risk nuclear war defending Crimea, the west actually agreed to cause nuclear war to defend Crimea, if necessary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...

Hell, Russia went as far as to actually raise the issue in the UN general assembly that the west hasn't lived up to it's obligations under that treaty.

So not only has the west proved it won't defend anyone, it has shown no diplomatic assurances of western states (or at least of the US, UK, France and China, and of course of the United Nations) are of any value whatsoever to smaller countries.

The only open tactic remaining is for all states that fear territorial annexation is to develop first strike capability with nuclear weapons. If you don't have that, you're at the mercy of Russia, and frankly, China and any western country. If one of them decides to attack, no help will be forthcoming, not even a UN security council protest.

All the comments here forget one very basic thing: if you aren't willing to serve in a war with China, you don't recognize Taiwan sovereignty. It doesn't take 2 countries to go to war, after all, it only takes one, and China is.

xupybd• 8 years ago

Does anyone know the background here. Why is it that the Chinese government or people want to rule Taiwan as much as they appear to?

paraditedc• 8 years ago

Here's the really long background info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War

wallace_f7• 8 years ago

ROC (Taiwan) is the defacto legitimate government of China. They were defeated in war by communist forces and fled to Taiwan. At the time (1949-onward), America acknowledged ROC as the legitimate government of China, but only intervened to protect them in the Taiwan strait. You can simply read more detail on Wikipedia, etc(1). Then after Mao won control of China, he went on to oversee arguably the manslaughter and murder of more people than any other tyrant in history.

1-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_retreat_to...

amaccuish• 8 years ago

ROC (Taiwan) is the defacto legitimate government of China. They were defeated in war by communist forces and fled to Taiwan.

They were defeated, and yet still considered the "defacto legitimate government of China"? How does that work? I would think very few people consider the ROC the "legitimate" government of Mainland China.

America acknowledged ROC as the legitimate government of China

Why is this relevant?

jhanschoo• 8 years ago

I think you mean de jure. A mainland Chinese would not go to Taiwanese courts or abide by Taiwanese law, so you cannot say that most living in Qing China's imperial borders recognize the legitimacy of TW's govt.

Internationally, more countries abide by the PRC's One China policy than exclusively recognize TW, so it does not have international de facto legitimacy as well.

De jure... well, that would still be arbitrary. Go further back and one might consider the hereditary Qing successors to be the legitimate rulers. Or you might consider legitimacy to be conferred by the Mandate of Heaven, and by that reasoning China has never been more prosperous than the present in absolute terms, so then the PRC holds legitimacy.

ngcc_hk• 8 years ago

It is in the culture of chinese to unify everything under its culture. It is a culture empire by nature. Before accepting the reality, Taiwan claim the whole china and in fact sort of still do they sort of still do to southern china sea.

There is nothing in chinese culture allow difference. Harmony is all under one rule only. No federalism. International approach to culture ... we will not see but one day if it is it will try to take on all culture barbarians. There is nothing but to keep all non-barbarian within the Great Wall. Even if it is e-Great Wall.

Globally one might say we should consider a model for one extra powerful (strong or big country as chinese woukdvput it) group. One may say just like America, Eu, Russia, Arabs ... that might be just worry of japan, Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam, ... past culture colony of china should be worry.

but given its one belt one road and the china of china taken of Africa, I am afraid it is much worst.

We are not talking about a country that respect humanity basic rights. Check out the 7 we do not talk about you know what is in store for the world or at least within.

Good luck to us. Hope it all fail. But prepare for the worst.

Not sure how strong support of us on Taiwan (and HONG kong) even though both has an American act to sort of protect their different level of independence. Good luck.

meowfly• 8 years ago

Maybe you can check this observation of mine but it appears that ethnically Chinese (Han) people seem to often equate criticisms on Mainland China poitics as being synonymous with attacks of ethnic Chinese people. It is very normal to see criticisms of China met with objections from Chinese people who are Singaporean or from the EU.

It also seems to me that Taiwan and Hong Kong are sitting at a place where they feel they are ethnically/culturally connected but don't want the political aspects of being a part of the mainland. On the other hand, people from the mainland (or connected to the mainland) seem to view those as the same things.

nutcracker462• 8 years ago

Xi should consider the effect of vastly reduced foreign trade after an attempt to take Taiwan by force.

jbigelow76• 8 years ago

You gotta figure if the Chinese Politburo handicaps each US president on the odds of no US military response to a forceful re-unification attempt Trump is definitely going to be their horse.

Happy New Year, cross your fingers 2019 doesn't go down in history books as the start of World War 3 :)

fipple• 8 years ago

Can’t think of any recent US President that would start a war with China over Taiwan. China will take Taiwan when it feels like it.

yellowapple• 8 years ago

A US President will be unlikely to (voluntarily) start a war with China directly, but the US and Taiwan stand to mutually benefit from the US beefing up its military aid to Taiwan (the US because Taiwan is a massive allied economy that's enough of a threat to China for China to want to assert control, and Taiwan because they probably don't want to be steamrolled by a dictatorship).

polotics• 8 years ago

I disagree. Letting the xijinping-dictatorship take over a democratic country would open the door for any and all further Asian invasions. The best chance to show all Hans that freedom can be won is on Taiwan.

CathayRe3• 8 years ago

I don't see how a War could happen between two Nations that has Nukes. Do they agree on not to use Nuke before the war?

There won't ever be a World War 3, if there is the next one might very well be the end of human civilisation.

flukus2• 8 years ago

Most nations have adopted a "no first use" doctrine, a promise not to use nukes until their enemy does. The only nuclear powers not to adopt this are the US and north Korea.

known• 8 years ago

Is there a "Berlin Wall" between Taiwan and China?

gaius• 8 years ago

70 miles of strait?

throwmeback2• 8 years ago

doesn't it seem to be more effective than a wall actually?

yarg2• 8 years ago

One country, two systems - so the same as Hong Kong?

emmelaich2• 8 years ago

Not remotely. Hong Kong was only leased from China.

Reason0772• 8 years ago

Hong Kong Island and the Kowloon Peninsula were ceded in perpetuity by the Qing Dynasty to the British Crown. It was only the New Territories that were leased, for 99 years beginning in 1898.

However, it was agreed under the Sino-British Joint Declaration in 1984 to return all of Hong Kong to Chinese sovereignty upon expiration of the New Territories lease on July 1, 1997.

yarg2• 8 years ago

My point was that "one country, two systems" is disingenuous rhetoric that has been used before by the Chinese government.

It is intended to be a precursor to takeover and an eventual crackdown on the liberties of the citizenry.

wallace_f7• 8 years ago

All of my responses got what seems like an equal number of downvotes (4) sometime in the last hour, and this thread got ejected from the front page well over an hour before this happened.

Smells like the product of small little online brigaide.

latch• 8 years ago

-4 is the lower limit that a comment can be downvoted to, so the fact that they're all the same isn't particularly telling.

wallace_f7• 8 years ago

They were all positive, and each reduced by 4 points. Currently the lowest sits at -1.

Mikeb854• 8 years ago

It'll happen eventually, and likely without force. Taiwan (like HK) enjoyed relative economic success versus China because of their ties with the west, beneficial strategic location and relatively small population. Now that China's an economic superpower, still growing and liberalizing (albeit slowly), theres less reasons for Taiwan to oppose reunification. I doubt it'll happen in the next decade, but it likely will within 50 years.

SamReidHughes4• 8 years ago

I don’t know much about Chinese people’s mindsets, but keep in mind that the Scottish and UK independence referendums were split about 50/50. Scotland is 5 million people, the UK is 65 million. A Taiwan/China unification makes as much sense to me as Canada merging with the United States.

Mikeb854• 8 years ago

Canada is ideologically quite separate from the US. Our histories diverged quite early, and we have fundamentally different ideas concerning governance. Linguistically and ethnically there's differences too.

China and Taiwan both believe in only one China, and both believe in reunification, albeit with differing ideas on how to accomplish it (Taiwan still calls itself the Republic of China).

CathayRe3• 8 years ago

theres less reasons for Taiwan to oppose reunification

What? Nothing you said in the previous sentence make any sense for reason of unification .

Mikeb854• 8 years ago

Much of the reason HK and Taiwan were so fiercely independent is because they enjoyed far higher living standards than mainland Chinese. The more successful China is, the more likely Taiwan is to join them.

Keep in mind that Taiwan, like China, ideologically believe in one China. When it's more advantageous for them to join China than to be a US satellite state, they will.

Markoff• 8 years ago

i think you missed news arbor Xi being elected if you think China is liberalizing, it was until Xitler was elected, then all went down the drain and China it's becoming more NoKo 2.0

emmelaich2• 8 years ago

I would be happy to have Taiwan rule China.

onetimemanytime2• 8 years ago

>I would be happy to have Taiwan rule China.

So convince the Chinese in mainland China and we can solve this without a shot being fired. Boeing etc will profit from this but Taiwan isn't going anywhere. Eventually a pro-China party will win and via...

I wonder if USA has a way to brick the weapons we sold /are /will be selling to Taiwan if China takes over? No doubt Chinese spies are in all branches of Taiwan politics and military.

digianarchist• 8 years ago

Pro-Bejing parties are now the majority of the legislative in Hong Kong. It's only a matter of time before the same happens in Taiwan and they fall under the S.A.R system.

The fact that the KMT are considered China-friendly is hilarious considering the history of the Republic of China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-politics/taiwan-re...

tails4e• 8 years ago

Taiwan has some leading tech companies, most notably TSMC who fabricate a huge portion of all ICs (chips) in the world. China has been investing a lot in building up it's own fabs, with some success - but still well behind TSMC. I wonder is part of this goal to take a strangle-hold on the world's technology manufacturing?

slowmovintarget• 8 years ago

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025

Helped along by consulting from McKinsey, of course.

Xi Jinping says Taiwan “must and will be” reunited with China

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