Stop TSA Scanners

http://stoptsascanners.blogspot.com/

by edw519 • 16 years ago

35 33 16 years ago

stoptsascanners.blogspot.com

Forget about being seen naked. The bigger issue is that it's all security theater and does little to actually make us safer, yet it costs us an extraordinary amount in cost and lost time.

sz12• 16 years ago

does little to actually make us safer

Evidence? (or reasoning)

kiujhgbnj• 16 years ago

In the first millennium there was no airport security and a large number of Viking raids on Britain.

In the second millennium airport security was introduced and many fewer viking raids took place

In this millennium with greatly increased airport security there have been no viking raids on any part of the British isles.

ataggart2• 16 years ago

I agree with your point that there is no evidence to suggest it makes us even a little bit safer.

barrkel2• 16 years ago

If they had caught a bunch of people, don't you think they'd be singing their praises from the rooftops?

sz12• 16 years ago

Why was this downvoted?

See dalke's reply to me below for an actual response:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1852670

kevin_morrill2• 16 years ago

If you have the technology to make a bomb, just take it somewhere else crowded that's less defended. Or do something like the D.C. sniper did years ago.

If you calculate the lost man hours of productivity on airport security, we're getting killed everyday.

There are definitely ways to avoid this, but it's probably best discussed outside this forum.

sz12• 16 years ago

I really don't get it. Can someone explain what is wrong with body scanners?

I just see people embarrassed at having body parts, which is absurd. Everyone looks approximately the same, and it's not like photos of your junk are being sent to your coworkers.

_ouxp3• 16 years ago

I get it. You, like too many, think genitals are 'junk'. I am not ashamed of my body. I value my body and want to share it only with those I choose, not indiscriminately, and certainly not as a condition for flying.

Forced or coerced nudity has been used as a weapon because it represents a one-way power transfer.

sz12• 16 years ago

Even accepting genitalia as a sacred artifact, I have to raise an eyebrow at your definition of 'sharing'. I regularly have the testicles of my neighbor's dog in my view but I wouldn't say that he's sharing his body with me.

Furthermore I fail to see exactly what concrete harm is being done that justifies your calling body scanners a weapon.

younata• 16 years ago

"Junk: Penis and testacles." [sic] [1]

[1] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=junk (NSFW) (definition 2)

swaits3• 16 years ago

It's not about embarrassment. It's about my right to be in control of my person, and to not be bombarded with unnecessary radiation (of any amount). And it's about power and control.

sz12• 16 years ago

You have every right not to fly. So it's not about power and control.

dalke2• 16 years ago

1) mechanics, cleaning crew, and other people who have direct access to the planes do not need to go through security - it's only places visible to passengers where this is done. After all, airplanes are used to smuggle drugs, so the same process can be used to secrete a bomb.

2) additional security and screening costs money, time, and our patience, but there's no evidence that it's effective. A GAO report points out that the TSA expedited purchasing of the full-body scanners without doing anything to ensure it would be better than the existing system. It was done in part as a reaction to the attempted bombing of 25 Dec 2009, but without evidence that the machines would be effective against a repeat of that attack. I also recall a report (perhaps 5 years ago?) saying that penetration testing of post-9/11 security was as easy as pre-9/11 despite the attempts by the TSA at improving it.

3) Another GAO reports highlights that the TSA has done no evaluation of how to improve overall security. For example, a bomb set off in the waiting lines of densely packed airport security, or in Penn Station, would also have a chilling effect on our travel. This attack was done already against El Al's ticket booth in LA. Or consider the hijacking of CanJet Flight 918 where an armed gunman forced his way through security and got on board an airline preparing for takeoff - when the pilots are present but before the doors are secured. Full-body scanners do nothing against this attack.

4) As the GAO and others have reported, people can still smuggle things in their body. These are not detectable by the full-body scanners. With enough people in collusion, that is sufficient to get the parts for a bomb through security.

If it's impossible to keep drugs out of prison, with 24-hour observation and multiple levels of walls and barriers, it's not going to be possible to keep a bomb or weapon out of a plane. The goal is to reduce the likelihood, but there's no evidence that the full-body scanners make a real difference. Instead, they waste money, waste time, waste patience, and inure travelers to yet more intrusions on their personal life.

Therefore my annoyance comes from being told to do things which are meaningless and ineffective, and perhaps even detrimental to overall security.

sz12• 16 years ago

This was the type of answer I was hoping for, thanks.

Some of what you referenced and further reading here:

http://www.gao.gov/search?search_type=Solr+(Beta+1.0)&o=...

barrkel2• 16 years ago

Our culture has sexualized taboos over nakedness; mandatory nakedness is a form of humiliation and sexual assault.

I understand if your individual experience of culture is a step apart from the norm; but you must recognize that, even if you don't see people stripping off their clothes has a sexual element, plenty of people who go to strip clubs etc. do.

sz12• 16 years ago

Sure, I can empathize with that point of view if it's a "just because I can" type of power situation. But if it's a standard (assuming necessary) security procedure does it still carry the same weight?

miles• 16 years ago

ataggart2• 16 years ago

I opted out at SFO. The incredulous TSA agent repeatedly asked me why I was opting out. I declined to provide an answer, and instead simply asked if opting out was an option and if so, then I opt out. Eventually he let me through, shouting "opt out!", at which point I had to wait for them to rustle up someone to perform the pat down.

If even 1/4 of the people in that line opted-out, it would be chaos in the security area. So do your part, and make a TSA agent uncomfortable.

chrisbennet• 16 years ago

At least they don't take away our clothes and make us wear orange jump suits for the duration of the flight - yet.

Stop TSA Scanners

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