The popular Iranian tradition of using Hafez’s poems for divination

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20181023-irans-fascinating-way-to-tell-fortunes

by MiriamWeiner • 8 years ago

51 16 8 years ago

bbc.com

JoeAltmaier• 8 years ago

So much better, cooler, more romantic than 'Ask again later'. We settle for so little. Sigh.

unmole2• 8 years ago

See also: Parrot Astrology of India - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrot_astrology

ginko• 8 years ago

This seems very easy for the fortune teller to exploit. Parrots are intelligent enough to take subtle hints, plus their UV vision allows them to see marks on the cards humans wouldn't detect.

M_Bakhtiari• 8 years ago

Where do the stars enter into the equation in this parrot astrology?

unmole2• 8 years ago

Astrology is actually a mistranslation. Indian languages usually use the same word, Jyotiḥśāstra to refer to both astrology and and fortune telling.

Jun8• 8 years ago

Very cool. 10-20 years ago it was quite common in Istanbul to see a similar method of divination but done with a rabbit! Haven't seen them for some time but here's a recent video of the operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KFKbieSe8c

kopo3• 8 years ago

Reminds me. Few months ago a friend was wrestling with one of those big life changing decisions everyone faces sometime or the other. He spent a whole lot of time meticulously analysing pros and cons, but just couldn't decide one way or another. Then one day he does this "remote" tarot card reading session (facepalm) and bam! Decision made. I was shocked. Don't know how many times I had to then hear, "...but dude just look at what the tarot card said". Psycologists really need to figure out how this "magic" works and how we can use it more effectively.

qwerty456127• 8 years ago

You don't even need tarot for such a case usually. Just promise yourself you are going to do what it decides and flip a coin. As soon as the coin falls and demands you to go particular way you will feel either joy or sorrow about the fact it has fallen this way and you are to obey. This will make it clear what do you actually want. Now you can forget about the promise and go the way you know you want now.

It also doesn't take to be particularly irrational magically-oriented mind to make use of some astrology, numerology, tarot or whatever of this kind occasionally - trying these and getting some shockingly precise data about yourself and predictions about events in your life is enough for a mind that is predominantly pragmatic although rational).

kopo3• 8 years ago

Interesting point. Thanks!

nestorD• 8 years ago

One thing that is often missed about tarot is that it is not about reading the meanings of the cards in the void, it is an interpretative and reflective practice. The reading will at least push the client to fit the meanings to his problem leading to a slightly different point of view on his situation and having him considering its potential outcomes. And that's the minimum, great readers can get you to consider the emotions behind your choices and explore options you did not consider.

kopo3• 8 years ago

hmmm...almost like a therapist I suppose.

openfuture• 8 years ago

I really believe in this tradition, you should try it: https://www.hafizonlove.com/fal.htm

There's always a fresh perspective and amazing poetry, it has given me insight many times in my life.

It's not only bards that offer divination's from the divan, in Tehran the street kids sell a page from the divan for a dollar and in general I'd say the dominant religion in the country is the wisdom of its poets (the greatest ones being Rumi, Saadi, Omar Khayyam and debatably the most popular, Hafez).

I wish I had the time to go learn the language so that I too could appreciate the depth of their poetry.

geff82• 8 years ago

As a now fluent speaker of the language, I can tell you it is one of the easiest languages you can learn. There are very few exceptions (most come only from the predominant Tehran dialect), no irregular verbs, a strict but easy grammar. Understanding Hafez might require a bit of side knowledge and the use of more outdated words, anyway.

eternalban2• 8 years ago

The English language simply can not convey Hafiz. Shahriari has made a very good effort but his personal faith (he is a Zoroastrian) colors his rendition of some of the poems.

Also as a note, as C. G. Jung warned in his introduction to the Wilhelm translation of the "I Ching", divination is not without hazardous consequences.

There is no free lunch in the universe. You are not getting "free information" here. Remember that before you decide to weaken your faculty of Choice when using divination tools.

[p.s. Hafiz is also very much coded with Sufi terminology. You can take it at face value and admire his mastery of the Persian language but the embedded messages require exegesis.]

azar1• 8 years ago

Another tradition of divination in Iran is called fal-gush. You hide behind a fence and listen to the conversations of people passing by and use it to answer your questions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fāl-gūsh

eternalban2• 8 years ago

And this pretty much explains why a nation like Iran is stuck where it is (for the past n 100 years). No shortage of brains but a corrosive fatalism that became ingrained in the very culture, likely as a consequence of successive disasters of Arab and Mongul invasions. The Persians of lore that managed 3 empires were not fatalistic fools.

[Fair disclosure: born Iranian.]

The popular Iranian tradition of using Hafez’s poems for divination

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