Sinister 'hunger stones' with dire warnings have surfaced as water levels drop

https://www.businessinsider.com/sinister-hunger-stones-dire-warnings-surfaced-europe-2018-8

by fahd777 • 8 years ago

149 77 8 years ago

businessinsider.com

codewritinfool• 8 years ago

Reminds me of the stones in Japan warning not to build homes below them.

https://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/03/ancient-tsunami-warnin...

thedailymail• 8 years ago

I was thinking the same thing. There is also the interesting discussion about how to label nuclear waste disposal sites with signs that need to be understandable for ~10,000 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-time_nuclear_waste_warnin...

soperj9• 8 years ago

It's almost as if this has happened before... But no, it's record breaking drought.

klmr2• 8 years ago

It … can be both?!

And given that the stones explicitly warn of catastrophe associated with the drought it doesn’t seem like a too common occurrence.

(Also, on an unrelated note, it’s important not to confuse drought (for which there’s precedence) with global warming and recent heat waves (for which there isn’t precedence). The two are probably connected but they’re not the same.)

soperj9• 8 years ago

How can it have happened before and be record breaking?

Why the unrelated note? Why assume I am an idiot?

bsder• 8 years ago

Um, the fact that the last time it was this bad was 400 years ago is pretty much the definition of "record breaking".

soperj9• 8 years ago

uhhh... the fact that there was a time that was "this bad", means that at most it's record equaling.

mortenjorck• 8 years ago

What you are saying is not greatly removed from “well if the world’s gettin’ so dang warm, why’s it so cold right now?”

Climate science is much more complex than isolated data points such as a local temperature or river level, and to counter multivariate studies with anecdotal reductionism is the tool of demagogues.

mywittyname2• 8 years ago

The associated study claims that these stones have been seen many times - they are likely to appear about five times per century. The study points out that the causes of droughts have changed. Previous droughts were largely due to a lack of precipitation. The current levels of precipitation is actually as high as it has even been.

The cause of the current drought is record levels of heat. Despite statistically high levels of rain fall, the temperature of the region is so high that the rivers are drying up anyway.

pydook2• 8 years ago

Not entirely true, at least locally. Precipitation in Czech republic in August is just 40% of normal state for this month [1]. The lack of rains is a big deal here.

[1]: Report about draught from Czech meteorological agency, http://www.chmi.cz/files/portal/docs/tiskove_zpravy/2018/TZ_...

practice9• 8 years ago

"Neplac holka, nenarikej, kdyz je sucho, pole strikej." (Don't cry, girl, don't fret. When it's dry, just spray your field wet.)

Is this some weird Czech euphemism?

yread• 8 years ago

no, it doesn't work in original

jonathanyc• 8 years ago

Huh, so is it just a rhyme? The translation definitely makes it sound like it was originally a euphemism, if only because it seems such a strange thing to write :)

evincarofautumn2• 8 years ago

I think they were just trying to make it rhyme in English by choosing approximate translations. The original says “[don’t cry] [girl], [don’t lament/wail], [when] [(there) is] [drought], [field] [spray (water)]”.

3flp• 8 years ago

Nope. Native Czech speaker here. The style is akin to a nursery rhyme or an old folk song. It doesn't carry any hidden meanings. A better English translation might be "..spray the field wet". The pronoun "your" is not present in the Czech phrase.

sattoshi• 8 years ago

Our ancestors were not dumb people. This is terrifying as it didn't happen just once, but multiple times. We have a working model here.

"If you see me, you will weep. So low was the water in 2018."

Smushman• 8 years ago

I get the feeling that droughts have happened before, are happening now, and will happen again; and we are just not able as humans to control the climate.

In fact I found this study that proves that history does repeat.

https://www.clim-past.net/9/1985/2013/cp-9-1985-2013.pdf

Thankfully, due to technological advancement though - it is nowhere near as damaging as it once was - in fact now these are barely a blip on the radar on human life. In times past, it is easy to forget that a simple drought halted all commerce, caused great famines, and without transportation and local food sources available, people were dying.

Just take a look at the history and see the trend lines for the evidence of improvement that advancements like electricity and internal combustion have given us:

https://ourworldindata.org/famines

Here's one for technology!

crooked-v• 8 years ago

and we are just not able as humans to control the climate

https://xkcd.com/1732/

jazzyjackson• 8 years ago

I agree that humans can not control the climate. We are probably able to change it, unfortunately. We've sure punched up CO2 levels over the last hundred years.

Do you believe in Venus?

glhaynes• 8 years ago

I get the feeling that droughts have happened before, are happening now, and will happen again; and we are just not able as humans to control the climate.

Great! Hope you're not wrong. The vast majority of people who are in the best positions to know think you are.

teh_klev• 8 years ago

Original article on Science Alert instead of this BI reheat with its annoying adblocker popup:

https://www.sciencealert.com/sinister-hunger-stones-dire-war...

ateesdalejr4• 8 years ago

If you disable JS you don't need to worry about it. ;)

anonytrary2• 8 years ago

You also don't need to worry about 90% of the web, either. ;)

userbinator• 8 years ago

It's so odd to see this article appear on HN alongside https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17868840

InitialLastName• 8 years ago

What's weird? The landlocked Czech Republic has different water level trends than coastal Miami?

nonbel• 8 years ago

Perhaps that water ended up in the great lakes, which currently contain near record high amounts of water?

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/Lake-Superi...

notatoad• 8 years ago

AFAIK, the Elbe doesn't drain into lake superior.

goda902• 8 years ago

I think the idea is that wet areas are getting wetter, while dry areas are getting drier as the climate becomes more extreme.

microtherion2• 8 years ago

They'd probably call it Über-See over there.

goda902• 8 years ago

The same water has been flooding homes and destroying infrastructure all over the upper midwest for the last couple weeks.

WaltPurvis• 8 years ago

Pedantic quibbling: is "ancient societies" a proper designation for 15th century Europe?

holstvoogd• 8 years ago

only if you consider the 15th century the very distant past. へ‿(ツ)‿ㄏ

evincarofautumn2• 8 years ago

As far as some people are concerned, it was ~8–10% of the Earth’s entire history ago, instead of 0.0000001% of it.

ChuckMcM• 8 years ago

I have heard people discuss 19th century America as an "ancient society". Personally I'm all for calling anything between the Sumerians and the last Pharaoh of Egypt ancient but then the Denisovans and Neanderthals feel left out.

emiliobumachar• 8 years ago

I guess if the Great Barrier Reef starts recovering, we could etch some dire warning into the rock about to be covered by life, to be seen the next time things get this bad.

"If you see me, you will weep. So barren was our ocean in 2018."

If only, the Reef is likely irreversibly dying by now.

Any other applications?

adrianN2• 8 years ago

Areas that used to be covered by glaciers.

jtbayly2• 8 years ago

Seems like in front of a glacier's path when it's about to start growing is a bad place to put something that you want to survive for future generations to read.

phkahler• 8 years ago

> As Europe wilts in the sweltering, record-breaking harshness of summer 2018, strange things are happening.

Obviously it's not record-breaking now is it? They were here before and left a warning in stone.

l0b0• 8 years ago

I was under the impression that stones sink…

dillondoyle2• 8 years ago

Reminds me of Japan's Tsunami Stones [1]. There are other examples around the world.

I spend a lot of time in Guatemala at Lago Atitlan. Only the white people live at water level, the indigenous generally live up higher given the ever changing water line. Probably a combo of white colonialists 'know better' mindset + more $$ so it's not as much as a big deal (waterfront premium as a vacation versus subsistence home).

Too bad we repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/world/asia/21stones.html

thaumasiotes2• 8 years ago

One reason whites live at low altitude in mountainous South America is that they don't suffer so many difficulties carrying pregnancies to term. The natives are better adapted to local conditions.

senorjazz2• 8 years ago

Doesn't really apply here, as the lake side to homes a bit higher up is maybe <100m. IIRC 1600 - 1700. That difference is not effecting anyone.

senorjazz2• 8 years ago

I was there in 2005 and again 2012 and was astonished at how high the lake had risen, buildings were swamped out, beaches w1here we used to go gone.

The lake was also getting dirty. Actually saw a documentary the other day on how this has only gotten worse. Some terrible pictures of how the lake looks at certain times of the year.

dillondoyle2• 8 years ago

The lake is in a precarious position. Sorry I started writing a reply and this got really long. I'm very passionate and really wish I could help. I have a goal of buying a 2nd home on the lake in the near future...

There are periodic 'outbreaks' where the bacteria (I think I don't know it might be some other organism) cover the lake and kill it even further. It's very sad.

If you don't know the history, it was actually white Americans that decided it would be a great idea to bring in non-native fish to turn the lake into a fishing tourist destination. Ended up killing the ecosystem. Combined with a growing population moving to towns around the lake instead of the high farmlands, waste dumping straight into the lake, and very little ecosystem left to clean itself up I'm afraid the lake is in dire need of help.

There was a study recently by the Rotary that examined possible solutions and they came up with building hydro power (the lake sits a a high elevation with a natural 'dam'; it's almost perfectly setup already for this). I forget the mechanism but somehow this was one ID'ed as a top opportunity to clean up the lake, I assume since it would generate revenue.

The problem is corruption and $$$. Everyone has their hand out and there are countless examples of past efforts of small and large scale projects failing for lack of organization and corruption.

I think estimates for the hydro plant was low couple hundred million. It seems so doable especially right now (leverage China vs. Israel/US/Taiwan).

Except for the corruption.

Not sure if I believe this is a bright side or a dire warning: there is a loud and coordinated attack on the CIGIC even in US media big papers are publishing opinion pieces. It's disgusting to me given all that CIGIC has accomplished.

But the potential bright side is clearly the corrupt power class is very worried and maybe with the protection of a few US politicians and Israel CIGIC can fully clean house and Guatemala can continue to improve.

Anyways sorry about this reply again, I started to write a short reply and couldn't stop I'm sure you're not interested but I clearly am lol

lordgrenville• 8 years ago

Not trying to cause trouble, but this story leaves out a pretty important detail[1]:

> Also, because of a dam on a tributary of the Elbe, it's seen more often now than it used to be — although the current river levels are still exceptional.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641331544/drought-in-central-...

RickJWagner• 8 years ago

Hmmmm, 'Science Alert' has a headline that calls stones 'Sinister'?

Methinks science has taken a backseat to rhetoric, regardless of the substance of the story.

Sinister 'hunger stones' with dire warnings have surfaced as water levels drop

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