Show HN: Remote jobs for people with disabilities

http://www.jobenabler.org

by zaheerbaloch • 8 years ago

177 53 8 years ago

I like the idea, but isn't the problem the fact that more tech isn't "disabled-friendly" anyway? Wouldn't it be technically illegal to discriminate against disabled without a bona fide reason?

As far as the site itself goes - hey, go for it! But it should have a mission statement, some kind of FAQ or explanation of why that should be used instead of other sites, and more information on the kinds of disabilities being catered to in a posting (or why a job is particularly considerate of disabilities).

Cthulhu_• 8 years ago

Wouldn't it be technically illegal to discriminate against disabled without a bona fide reason?

It is in most parts of the world, and most countries have building codes that force them to be wheelchair accessable for example.

However, I can imagine that there's a group of people for who getting to work every day is a big hassle (arranging transport, etc), and who would prefer to work from home.

nathanaldensr• 8 years ago

It's not just about physical access to a building. There are many, many jobs that require certain physical abilities. You'll often see them listed on a US job application like this: "Must be able to lift 100 pounds unassisted." The wording is carefully chosen to indicate a job requirement rather than a personal health or wellness requirement.

miiiiiike• 8 years ago

It's useful.

Disclosing a disability during a job search is risky. An employer taking the time to say "I don't care about your disability, apply." might be the difference between someone qualified deciding to apply or not.

That fact that discrimination based on a number of factors is illegal for employers in the US doesn't change anything. People break the law, act inappropriately, and damage careers/job prospects all the time. And, unless they do something supernaturally stupid, there won't be any consequences for misconduct.

There's no harm in employers throwing "We're an Equal Opportunity Employer, and mean it" into a job post, or putting up an ad on a site like this. It shows that they're at least minimally serious about it.

drngdds• 8 years ago

Wouldn't it be technically illegal to discriminate against disabled without a bona fide reason?

It's really easy to make up a reason. "Not a good culture fit" and so on.

sonofgod• 8 years ago

You've got some encoding issues, I think it's double UTF-8: ("Youâve")

I appreciate it's only a demo but your one job being not actually remote is a bit of a letdown.

The big challenge is going to be getting this advertised.

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

I have noticed the encoding issue. Working on it. The job posting is though not remote, but welcomes/prefers the people with disabilities.

exikyut• 8 years ago

Here you go, if you're using python(?): https://ftfy.now.sh/

That's the web demo link above, but ftfy is a Python library you throw all your text through and it comes out magically perfect. I can copy Unicode text through (non-UTF-8 aware) VNC and completely destroy it, paste it into FTFY, and it just figures it out no matter how bad it gets.

Since I'm here, I _have_ to do this...

I copied a small piece of text back and forth through TigerVNC a few times, yielding this:

  YouÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂ¢ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂve

What FTFY thinks I copied back and forth: "You’ve"

Note the â - err, sorry, ’ quote character :)

(Oh hey, I made my comment get a horizontal scrollbar, without using any code formatting! Nice!)

codingdave2• 8 years ago

The only job posted there says they want you to work in their office to start.

That is just a content problem, but I have mixed feelings about the site in general. As someone with medical problems that do impact my work, I love the idea of a site that has filtered the postings down to employers who will be supportive. But I don't see anything there that actually enforces that filter or proves that the employers understand the related issues. Also, the concept seems to be on shaky ground, legally, at least in the USA where employers are not privy to the medical status of their employees.

dfsegoat2• 8 years ago

RE: "Shakey ground legally" Are you talking about your particular case where a medical issue impacts your ability to work but isn't a true disability? Because otherwise, for a true disability - employers MUST comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act and not discriminate against a candidate who is qualified, disabled - and can work with a "reasonable accommodation" [1].

1 - https://www.eeoc.gov/facts/ada18.html

freeone3000• 8 years ago

It's harder to prove discrimination during the hiring process than after.

codingdave2• 8 years ago

I'm not sure what legal distinction you are referring to when you say a "true disability".

Nor am I sure exactly what the legalities are, which is why I simply said it felt "shaky". But I do know that in general, hiring processes don't ask about disabilities. They are one of the topics that are supposed to be unknown, to avoid discrimination claims. So putting up a site where the employers and candidates are volunteering to be put into that bucket is what I am questioning. IANAL, so I'm not trying to say whether the idea is OK or not... I'm just saying that I don't know how those answers would play out, but it feels like an area that deserves investigation.

pc86• 8 years ago

I think their point is that if you are referred by a site that is explicitly geared toward disabled candidates, any bias (implicit or explicit) will be magnified against those candidates. We can say ADA and EEOC all we want but at the end of the day the application process is not blind and implicit biases will creep in along with the occasional explicit bias. Why have an entire referral source that will amplify those issues?

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

I am working on adding a review of the jobs posted before making them public. This is v1.0 and hope to turn into a better/smarter platform.

cimmanom2• 8 years ago

And... the only job posted there also uses a gendered term ("king") that suggests it's not open to women.

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

I think he meant well... Let me ask the OP to change it...

harianus• 8 years ago

I'm the job poster, and yes. It's hard to find a term that does apply for both. If you have a good suggestion, let me know!

cimmanom2• 8 years ago

"Ruler"? Personally, I find silly over the top terminology like that or ("ninja" or "rock star") a turn-off in a job posting anyway; but for those who do find it appealing, there's plenty of gender-neutral terminology. Thank you for being open to input.

nickbarnwell• 8 years ago

"Sovereign" or "Monarch" would be the gender neutral equivalent.

bchjam• 8 years ago

How does this cater to the disabled more than any other remote job site? If it does, there should be a little blurb about it

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

The jobs/companies are genuinely interested in hiring people with disabilities. I am working on adding more copy to the website to make it more clearer.

10dpd• 8 years ago

There isn't any difference between a job for someone with a disability vs someone without a disability.

mathgeek• 8 years ago

There are jobs that someone with a disability can do just as well as someone without that disability. Likewise, there are jobs where that's not the case.

PhasmaFelis2• 8 years ago

There are jobs where employers actively try to support disabled employees, and there are jobs that will grumblingly provide the bare minimum legally required by the ADA and then find some pretext to fire you (or to not hire you in the first place, if you admit your disability during the interview).

It's valuable to let companies in the first category identify themselves.

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

Totally, this is the whole idea. Companies who prefer people with disabilities and not just post some random stuff in their job description to justify "equal oppurtunity employers".

You guys are really awesome as I have got awesome support and people have literally answered the questions that I didnt have answers for. Thank you so much :)

barbecue_sauce• 8 years ago

Many jobs involve physical labor which is inhibited by an array of disabilities.

kjullien• 8 years ago

What kind of disabilities are we talking about here ? Physical ? Mental ? Both ? Any way to know ? Does anthropophobia count as a disability for instance ?

Searched on the page but I could not find anything relating this.

PhasmaFelis2• 8 years ago

Presumably the kind of disability that makes it difficult for you to work remote jobs.

simonebrunozzi3• 8 years ago

I think the initiative is brilliant, despite the fact that there's only one job posting right now (Aug 24th, 8am PT).

Let me share my point of view as founder/CEO of a small startup in San Francisco, hoping that this helps.

What we do: we are building a software platform to digitize real estate properties (titles) using the Blockchain. (I know, Blockchain will solve everything bla-bla-bla... the reality is that we think this is a good use case for Blockchain technology; but I digress...)

We are a team of 3 co-founders (2 fairly technical, one business oriented), 1 lawyer (the product requires a lot of legal stuff), and 2.5 software developers.

Right now we are looking for at least one more technical person, possibly a front-end.

We have raised ~650k in an angel round, after bootstrapping for ~10 months. We launched an alpha version of the product, and we have one paying customer (a company, as we are mostly b2b at the moment).

The next few hires will be absolutely crucial for us. We can't really afford experiments. What this has to do with disabilities?

I am happy to hire anyone with the right skills, no matter his skin, gender, sexual orientation, or disabilities. Heck, we even hired Italians! (I am Italian, I can make that joke :D).

We don't mind remote people, either. We have a very flexible policy in regards to work. We are not big fans of 9-to-5 and offices.

To be able to hire someone with disabilities, we would need a healthy "inventory" of candidates. The site mentioned in this post, jobenabler.org, lists job opportunities, but doesn't guarantee a good enough list of candidates.

As CEO of a small young cash-poor startup, I have to be brutal and prioritize my time, and therefore I am not sure whether this tool is good enough to find our next hire.

Please note: I am trying to share my point of view as a potential employer, hoping that this helps the discussion.

Any comment, suggestion, or ways in which we can improve the chances of hiring someone with disabilities, please share here, or email me at simone @ fabrica.city.

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

This is very helpful. I am working on growing the site and getting it in front of as many technical people possible. This is just v1 to get feedback to make sure I am on the right track.

On the side note, posting is free so you can post today and see if you get any potential candidates.

simonebrunozzi3• 8 years ago

Thanks a lot for doing this!

I have already pinged my co-founder to discuss this further.

Question: what prompted you to start this?

maerF0x0• 8 years ago

As a more meta point. Maybe we could get a supportive tag on the monthly who's hiring post?

CiTyBear• 8 years ago

It already have remote for remote job. Something like [PRM] (Person with Reduced Mobility] ?

excalibur• 8 years ago

https://www.disabilityjobexchange.com/

https://disabilityjobs.net/

https://www.disabledperson.com/

https://abilityjobs.com/

https://www.disability.jobs/

This is from the first two pages of the Google results for "disability jobs". I've excluded government programs and disability-focused sections of more generalized job boards.

point78• 8 years ago

None of these are for remote jobs and just look like they are data farming

skinnymuch• 8 years ago

All of them look to just be grabbing their data from elsewhere. Some without too much discretion. None are for remote either.

justboxing• 8 years ago

Is this some kind of joke? There's literally just 1 job listed, and even that looks like a "Lorem ipsum dolor" type placeholder content.

https://www.jobenabler.org/job?id=2

POSITION : Are you our King of Dev?

COMPANY : Member Get Member Company.

If this is a landing page to gauge interest, it's a really poor attempt and definitely doesn't belong on Show HN (per guidelines).

If your work isn't ready for people to try out yet, please don't do a Show HN. Once it's ready, come back and do it then.

Source: Show HN Guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html

rhacker• 8 years ago

Whoa now, I would say this falls under a Show HN... however your post clearly falls under what you're not supposed to do:

In Comments

Be respectful. Anyone sharing work is making a contribution, however modest.

Ask questions out of curiosity. Don't cross-examine.

Instead of "you're doing it wrong", suggest alternatives. When someone is learning, help them learn more.

When something isn't good, you needn't pretend that it is. But don't be gratuitously negative.

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

I know there is only one job there right now, now there is one. The reason I posted on HN is because maybe there are people who are interested to hire through me and add job posts.

DoreenMichele2• 8 years ago

I have mixed feelings about this. I have a disability. I went through a program to help me get a job. Thankfully, I had a job offer by the time the intake process was completed because their approach was likely to leave me trapped in poverty permanently rather than merely for years while I sorted my personal issues.

It seems to be inherently problematic to do this type of focus. Putting your emphasis on the disability first and foremost tends to be counterproductive.

It also promotes a mentality that you deserve a job for your son story. This tends to work about as well as nepotism does, and for pretty much the same reason.

People may need a job even though they are disabled, but the focus really needs to be on "Well, what can you do?"

The very first problem I see with this is that it promises full-time remote jobs. Disabled people often have a lot of trouble working full-time. Many of them want part-time work.

My first full-time job was actually only 37.5 hours per week on the evening shift. That 2.5 hours difference was important. I eventually made the switch to 40 hours on the day shift and the transition was really hard. I spent weeks feeling exhausted, and this was after having that job for a while. I probably would have washed out had I started at 40 hours on day shift.

I would prefer to see a blog that explored disability issues combined with a remote job board where the listings answered the kind of questions a person with a disability might have. The blog could explore what works and why for different types of disabilities, then highlight a few current job postings.

A lot of disabled people were able-bodied until something bad happened to them. They may not know what they need to know to make life work as a disabled person. Most messages aimed at disabled individuals tell them they just can't do what others do. Figuring it all out yourself is an extra job on top of trying to make life work with a disability.

I would especially like to see part-time remote jobs and things with flexible hours.

In practice, I have found that 1099 positions serve my needs better than a "remote job." I saw how remote jobs were handled by my previous corporate employer. To my mind, it was a worst of both worlds scenario.

As a person with a disability, I need more control over my time and life and more opportunity to do things on my terms. I need control over my schedule. Jobs tend to not offer that. Certain contract positions classified as 1099 work tend to be better about that. (Which isn't to say this is always true. Not all 1099 positions are like that.)

One problem with a job: the work is structured with an expectation that you show up at certain hours and hit a certain productivity level for those hours. I like doing piece work where I know when it needs to be finished, but it is up to me when I do it and how long I spend on it.

Different disabilities will have different needs and remedies. What a blind person needs will very much differ from what I need. What a deaf person needs will very much differ from both those scenarios.

I hope you are wildly successful. Please take my remarks in the spirit of constructive feedback.

Edit: I will note that I like the name and I think the name gives it potential to become something that fits with my above thoughts about how to approach this problem space.

swaggyBoatswain2• 8 years ago

Different disabilities will have different needs and remedies. What a blind person needs will very much differ from what I need.

Related, but I've done a little bit of work with a nonprofit specialized in helping visually impaired / blind people get jobs.

Its actually requires a potentially complex solution. Website needs to have full ARIA / disability text in mind to use with NVDA screen readers. There's alot more UX and userstories in mind when it comes to building a solution for this. Not only that, a traditional job board does not really suffice IMO. It needs to be a full blown support network at least with visually impaired people in mind, there's 2 major organizations AFAIK that do this in america. The organizations does webcam-based interviews with these users, similar to more next upcoming Gen Z type hiring solutions.

I think disability job boards is interesting, but really its not that much different from a remote job for most people. Hiring companies that are accepting of flexible remote jobs are most likely equally accepting to people with nonvisually impaired or nondeaf based job board, because in the end it really doesn't make a difference to them from their perspective.

A remote job is the same, its wheel chair accessible but it does require more flexible hours. But it really shouldn't matter if you still get stuff done, and have async meeting standups, etc

Its important to note that visual impairment has a very wide spectrum of users. You have to seperate out how bad the impairment is, some can see things in low light, others have been blind from birth, while some have lost sight later in life. These drastically change userstories.

What a deaf person needs will very much differ from both those scenarios.

Visually impaired users require a much more sophisticated solution, deaf impairment I would argue not as much. They can still read a screen and communicate via slack etc, but issues with standup meetings etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------

So the way I see it is thusly, with respect to different disability categories

- Physically impaired - same as remote jobs, but companies should have meetups done asynchronously

- Visually impaired - a company that is okay with someone completely remote and has support for aria across all the job needs. Job duties need to be very consistent, cannot be too flexible (e.g. startups)

- Hearing impaired - a company that is okay with communicating purely by slack, or accomodating this specific user with slack meeting notes, etc.

DoreenMichele2• 8 years ago

Thank you for this good information. I have sent a link to your comment to a Google Group I co-own for blind developers.

(I'm not blind, though I do have really lousy eyesight that can't really be corrected. I'm also not a developer per se.)

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

Thank you so much for this awesome feedback. Currently I am targeting people who have physical disability who cant commute to work. I have plans to add more jobs and sort of network that help people with more sever disabilities get jobs. I really appreciate the above comment and for sure is very helpful in getting the website to more users and companies.

jscholes• 8 years ago

Bit of a mixed bag this one. Love the site itself. It's accessible, it's fast, it's easy to use. But it also only shows two jobs. One of them isn't remote, and it pays in euros but the salary section at the top of the page says dollars. I'll leave the discussions re: disclosing a disability to employers upfront or being refered to a company by a disability-specific jobsearch site to other people; I'm disabled myself but still don't have answers in those areas.

zaheerbaloch11• 8 years ago

Thanks for this sincere feedback. This is work in progress and just wanted to get it out there as soon as possible. Will be adding currency symbol with salary, plus making sure the employers mention that whether its a complete remote job. Note that the idea is that the companies that are genuinely willing to hire people with disabilities can post on jobenabler and genuine candidates apply.

Show HN: Remote jobs for people with disabilities

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