Remains of the murdered Romanovs 'authentic'

https://www.dw.com/en/russia-remains-of-the-murdered-romanovs-authentic/a-44700092

by Four_Star • 8 years ago

60 60 8 years ago

Nicholas II, his German-born wife and their five children were shot by Bolsheviks as a consequence of the October Revolution

They were not "shot as a consequence of". They were deliberately murdered under direct orders from Lenin, Dzerzhinsky, et al.

They were all brought together in a room and were shot and stabbed in a process that took about 20 minutes. Their bodies were then desecrated and disposed of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_the_Romanov_famil...

lostlogin10• 8 years ago

He was a terrible leader. Racist and horrifically anti Semitic, aggressive, incompetent as a military leader and in domestic policy. The number of deaths directly attributable to him is right up there with most the other Russian leaders. This doesn’t justify what happened to him, but certainly helps explain it.

tzahola5• 8 years ago

Racist and horrifically anti Semitic

Just like basically everyone else at the time.

baybal2• 8 years ago

Are you referring to Lenin?

vixen99• 8 years ago

What is the point of anonymous opinion casters? They're anonymous, quote no sources and believe think their opinions are important enough to made public. Readers too can check out the last Tsar of Russia and come to their own private views.

If you don't like the estimate of 85 and 100 million people killed under communism (other Russian leaders) according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_deaths_in_the_Soviet... then please offer a counter offer more in line with your assertion. Whatever please stop offering off-the-cuff unsubstantiated views. They have zero value for others.

imbokodo• 8 years ago

And Lenin's brother was murdered by the Tsar's father, and the Tsar murdered many other Russians of his own account.

Those Bolshevik soldiers sent the parasitical Romanovs to where they belonged - into the dustbin of history.

Melchizedek2• 8 years ago

Lenin's brother was tried and executed after trying to assassinate the Tsar. Comparing that to butchering children in secret is pretty rich.

YorkshireSeason4• 8 years ago

Those Bolshevik soldiers and their leaders the proceeded to make the situation a lot worse than Tsar, and exported their incompetency to many other countries, with the last major eruption of Bolshevik violence happening in the 1970s in Cambodian by the Khmer Rouge (the Khmer branch of the Bolshevik/Leninist party).

The world would probably have been a much better place without the Bolshevik, despite, and in full view of the many imperfections of the Tsarist rule.

Boulth• 8 years ago

They were deliberately murdered under direct orders from Lenin,

Unfortunately, according to the Wikipedia article you posted, it's not that easy to verify:

The written record taking the chain of command and the ultimate responsibility for the fate of the Romanovs back to Lenin was, from the beginning, either never made or carefully concealed.

...

However, as of 2011, there has been no conclusive evidence that either Lenin or Sverdlov gave the order.

dang• 8 years ago

All: please don't re-fight the Russian Revolution here. HN is a place for intellectual curiosity, not rageful reactivation.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Gargoyle• 8 years ago

I continue to be fascinated by the discussions you feel compelled to chime in on.

lostlogin10• 8 years ago

There is a great book on the Romanovs by Montifiore which covers the grisly end and the events leading up to it.

It’s well worth reading his other books on Russia, particularly Young Stalin as it covers the same time period and gives a good sense of the chaos and confusion of the revolution. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/books/review/the-romanovs...

gabaix• 8 years ago

In Yekaterinburg lies the “Church on the blood”, an impressive edifice with portraits of the Romanov. The museum beneath the church has many details of their lives and how they got executed. It is a place not to miss and a traumatic experience, for who wants to understand Russian history.

madengr3• 8 years ago

Every year in (private) school we watched Nicholas and Alexandra. The grade school kids were sent out before the ending.

verbify• 8 years ago

Why every year? That seems excessive.

madengr3• 8 years ago

Don’t know. Probably to instill in us the dangers of communism.

EGreg• 8 years ago

What private school was this? Did you also watch Peter and Fevronia?

madengr3• 8 years ago

No, just that. This was back in the late 70’s and early 80’s.

http://wcdsva.org

crshults• 8 years ago

My son asked me the other night how long we were going to live which took me down the Oldest_people[0] rabbit-hole on wikipedia. On the page for Jeanne_Calment[1] I found this interesting line:

"She considered the most important historical event in her lifetime to have been the Russian Revolution of 1917 and the execution of the Russian imperial family, a view shared by many fellow centenarians."

Goes to show just how impactful this act must have been.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

adrianN• 8 years ago

The Soviet Union shaped much of 20th century politics so this view is pretty reasonable.

rexpop• 8 years ago

Not surprising at all, since reading China Miéville's "October".

TangoTrotFox• 8 years ago

I can only imagine, but one thing that's really striking to me is how incredibly long the Soviet Union lasted. There have been a lot of awful things that have happened in history, but they tend to go as rapidly as they come especially when it comes to major powers in modern times. For instance the entire era of Nazi Germany was a mere 12 years from start to finish! The Soviet Union lasted for 69 years.

And the USSR itself was a communistic nation where the government even thinking you said the wrong thing was enough to get disappeared. And tens of millions citizens were killed by this government in its efforts to maintain itself. And then there was the fact that the economic system itself was failing as evidenced from decades of completely unnecessary shortages on pretty much everything. There was a joke within the Soviet Union that the only thing that's permanent within the union are temporary shortages. Of course, again, say such a joke to the wrong person and get disappeared.

Imagine living your entire life from birth to your sixties under such a system. I find it remarkable how little focus is given to things like lessons from the USSR as opposed to e.g. lessons from the Nazis.

myth_drannon• 8 years ago

I think more comparable with Nazism would be Stalinizm. It didn't last that long(although the horrors done to the Soviet people in that short time are unimaginable). Most of Soviet Union's history and the Cold War is relatively calm if I just subjectively compare to our times.

Fnoord• 8 years ago

There was a joke within the Soviet Union that the only thing that's permanent within the union are temporary shortages. Of course, again, say such a joke to the wrong person and get disappeared.

For a list of Russian jokes (including the Soviet Union) see [1]. I got it from HN a while ago btw so I'm merely giving it back. Free quality entertainment, and also you can observe how subtle or multiple interpretable the jokes commonly are.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_jokes

sndean• 8 years ago

Somewhat related: I remember it being a little disturbing to learn that during this period (and for a long time before) the leaders of the most powerful countries were related.

Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, and King George V of the United Kingdom were first cousins. Not to mention leaders of Norway, Denmark, and others.

Considering that, it's almost surprising how stable the time was.

dmreedy• 8 years ago

Perhaps it's the opposite angle. When they're all family, it's understandable why things were so stable. Any nationalism and cultural differences that might cause tribalistic wars were tempered by family ties and shared blood of the leadership.

InitialLastName2• 8 years ago

There's a bunch of very interesting, increasingly panicked telegram correspondence between those 3 specifically in the prelude to WWI as they all try to avoid going to war without having a whole lot of choice. I can't find the info about George V, but [0] has more about the telegrams between Nicholas II and Wilhelm II.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy%E2%80%93Nicky_correspond...

rossdavidh2• 8 years ago

Stable...until it went completely bonkers in WW1. The flipside of "stability" is often "unable to change course when something bad happens". The fundamental problem in WW1 is nobody on any side willing to admit this wasn't working for them. In France the and U.K., they could have electoral upheavals. In Russia, Austro-Hungary, Germany, and the Ottoman Empire, they monarchies were all eliminated either during WW1 or immediately after, in large part because they couldn't change course. Stability is only a virtue if you're not screwing up.

flukus• 8 years ago

Stable...until it went completely bonkers in WW1

Even WW1 was stable compared to some of the all in brawls that plagued Europe, at least you knew who was on which side for the most part. By comparison look at the Thirty Years War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War#Involvement

lostlogin10• 8 years ago

Considering that, it's almost surprising how stable the time was.

I think that was an intentional feature of the system and they married off kids to gain power and leverage.

InitialLastName2• 8 years ago

Researchers exhumed Nicholas's father Alexander III — himself assassinated in 1881 — to prove "they are father and son."

Alexander III was Nicholas II's father. He died in 1894 of illness (I don't see any hint of assassination). The Alexander who was assassinated in 1881 was Nicholas II's grandfather, Alexander II. Which body got exhumed?

rossdavidh2• 8 years ago

Too late to disprove the several Anastasia pretenders, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikola...

Remains of the murdered Romanovs 'authentic'

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