The dark side of “service with a smile”

https://www.knowablemagazine.org/article/mind/2018/baristas-burden

by kawera • 8 years ago

68 60 8 years ago

ryandrake2• 8 years ago

Feigning feelings at work — what psychologists call “emotional labor” — can be as mentally and physically taxing as any other type of workplace stress, but few workers or employers recognize the threat

Tell that to a bricklayer. I've worked crappy service jobs and I've nailed shingles to roofs in 100+F degree heat. I'll take the fake smile job any day of the week.

“I would come home from a day of barista-ing and my face would hurt. I thought I was just being whiny.”

One of those times when one should stick with one's initial thought.

nkrisc• 8 years ago

I suppose your point is that no one can hope for better working conditions as long as bricklayers exist?

cfadvan2• 8 years ago

One of those times when one should stick with one's initial thought.

Everyone should have to work a retail job to get a sense of what a broad selection of the public is like. Everyone (who is physically able) should have to work in manual labor to get a sense of what hard work is like. Say, 6 months of each. You’d probably get a lot less whining, and people might not be such pricks to cashiers. Ideally a third period would be spent as a nurse or EMT, but that would be prohibitive in terms of training and break too many people.

iagovar• 8 years ago

Add call centers to that. I basically had jobs in every position of the customer side, and it really helps you to understand many things.

ryandrake2• 8 years ago

Agree completely. Also, (relevant to HN) everyone who writes software or designs computer products should spend some time doing tech customer support. I'm sure we'd end up with better products.

donarb• 8 years ago

I worked for a small family run car advertising magazine. The company had two departments, the sales/photography staff who sold ads to car dealers and collected info about each car and the graphics staff who put together the advertising from the car info and photos. There was always a lot of grousing between the two camps that one side did things that the other side couldn't understand and made their jobs harder.

The owner devised a plan where each of the employees had to work for a few shifts with the other group to see what their jobs entailed. It made for a better understanding between them and gave each side an idea that the other jobs weren't exactly easy. Made for a better working relationship between the two groups.

megaman22• 8 years ago

I'd shingle roofs all day if it meant not having to deal with people. People are the worst.

frostburg2• 8 years ago

I've actually never had a job in which clients couldn't call you at any time to explain that they previously belived that they wanted x, but now want y, with y sometimes being impossible. The worst part is that gradually you learn to anticipate when this is going to happen and preemptively design stuff so that it's easier to change on random whims.

Are rude clients in service jobs a worse emotional load than people that think that specs are just vague suggestions?

Latteland• 8 years ago

Roofing doesn't pay that well. Most workers doing mine seemed to be English as a second language type people.

johnchristopher• 8 years ago

For the same wage and the same benefits ? Give me the nails.

Merad• 8 years ago

I've worked at physically demanding jobs (loading trucks at UPS) and at emotionally demanding jobs (call centers). In each case for 2-3 years, so I have a decent amount of experience with both. Neither is particularly fun, but I would take the physical work every time. For me at least physical tiredness or discomfort is much easier to adapt to than the kind of soul crushing emotional exhaustion that you get from doing doing those jobs every day.

reitanqild• 8 years ago

I've done

- been at the help desk

- waited tables

- worked in concrete repair (noisy and often really cold or really hit or really wet)

- worked at a go-cart center (smiling to customers)

- showeled tons and tons of grass and manure in smaller farm buildings where tractors where not an option.

The thing that broke me was the smiling part in the gocart center. It took 6 months or so before I cried whenever I was alone.

Full disclosure: the job was stressful in other ways too.

amriksohata• 8 years ago

If they were trained with fish philosophy they would not see it as a chore but part of their life and enjoy it far more

dazc2• 8 years ago

Too many people are working in public facing jobs despite having no talent for such work. I'm not surprised they find it stressful.

vostok• 8 years ago

If you do have the talent, you'll make more money selling Oracle than selling coffee.

CM30• 8 years ago

Yeah, and I think the reason is simply that 'public facing service job' is seen as the 'default' career for someone who doesn't have a particular skillset or what not.

So a ton of not particularly outgoing/not extroverted/no particularly 'people orientated' individuals who'd objectively be better off working in absolutely anything else are stuck doing service jobs they're not at all well suited for.

Unfortunately, there's not really an easy fix to this. In theory the best solution would probably be to get 'service' work treated like any other career path (a viable field that people go into because they're passionate about that sort of work and have the right mindset for it) and make it less 'if you've got no relevant skills, Walmart/Starbucks/whoever is hiring'. But that's probably not happening, since this sort of work is seen as something anyone can do and hence valued so low it's basically a 'last resort' job.

maire• 8 years ago

This all boils down to your attitude toward your job. In my generation most first jobs were in the service industry. Later we all migrated to jobs suited to our talents.

I am an introvert - and interacting with strangers is painful for an introvert. I got over it. Working with strangers helped me overcome my shyness and later gave me tools to empathize with customers. When I ultimately became a software engineer, this empathy helped. When I was a manager I noticed that the best engineers initially worked with customers in some capacity.

acjohnson552• 8 years ago

It's a great experience, for sure, but I think the point is the toll feigned cheerfulness can take over the long term. What's just a memorable formative experience to one person is another's entire livelihood for years.

rimliu• 8 years ago

I don’t know, I think the introverts are better at empathy, and exactly that makes interactions exhausting.

brokenmachine3• 8 years ago

Very insightful.

As an introvert, I agree completely.

The extroverts that I meet seem to have little insight into the feelings of the people they are energetically talking in the direction of, and desire little truthfulness in their conversations. It's all surface-level small talk. I can do it for a short time but every one of those conversations kills me a little inside.

hmd_imputer2• 8 years ago

There has to be a golden middle - I neither like German-style poker-face, almost angry looking baristas nor American-style fake-as-hell smiles when being served at Starbucks. Korean style service is very close to the golden middle - very kind and helpful service with a touch of a little smile.

everybodyknows• 8 years ago

There is a golden middle, found in some smaller service businesses.

To support them, give 5-star Yelp/Google reviews, as well as your business.

expertentipp3• 8 years ago

German-style would be rude, actively hostile, malicious even. Funny how American and German customer service cultures are at the two ends of the spectrum, both unpleasant to deal with though.

jey2• 8 years ago

I wonder how a German person would describe it. Probably not like that, I'll bet.

brokenmachine3• 8 years ago

I didn't have that experience when I was in Germany (Berlin). The service workers I met were mostly pleasant.

dghughes• 8 years ago

I like David Mitchell said it best on the BBC series QI. He said people who do their job well shouldn't also have to be nice too it OK to "not give a shit". He respects people who work terrible jobs and act miserable it's only right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LiDTKEF1ek

staticautomatic• 8 years ago

A few months ago I was working on an employment lawsuit in silicon valley and a prospective juror said about his employer, "I've been told I have a bad attitude and I agree because they ask too much of you."

astrodust• 8 years ago

He's a big proponent of a return to the old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9cP-1kC3So

kylnew• 8 years ago

I worked a total of 2 years at 2 different Starbucks locations and they were continuously pushing us to be cheerful, chatty and even tried to get us to suggest pastry pairings for people's orders, which rarely went over well unless people actually wanted it. It's something I never bought in to and found the hardest part of the job by far. I was never a jerk, and I always cared authentically about the work I was doing but I'm just not naturally social enough to make chit-chat about the weather and gas prices 100 times a day without dying a little bit inside.

dazc2• 8 years ago

This is why I never lasted long in retail. The idea that every customer wants to be approached with a 'can I help you' just goes against my natural instincts. I always figured nobody really wanted that and a polite hello was all that was needed to break the ice.

If customers walked out without buying it never worried me because I'd seen enough come back later to know that 'not being pushy' was actually something people actually seemed to like?

I always sold more than anyone else btw and had my regulars who would sometimes just call in to say hello. My colleagues could never understand how that happened, especially since I am not a naturally outgoing person.

dahdum2• 8 years ago

Expecting anyone to be bubbly and chipper in a customer facing role, even part of the time, is asking too much. I’ve seen and managed people where it comes naturally and I’m always in awe of that level of energy.

That said, you can separate emotion from the equation and still provide an outstanding level of service by focusing heavily on polite speech, manner, and tone. Forget the individual and treat them as the prototypical customer.

Some businesses try forcing their employees into casual banter or engaging emotionally (see Starbucks and the let’s talk about race). I’ve never seen that garbage at high end hotels, restaurants, or other businesses where service is critical to their success.

mc32• 8 years ago

Yep. Anyone who's ever travelled to Japan can attest to the professionalism that people at all levels perform at. From the high-schooler at Lawson's to the octogenarian at the car-park. While "pride" might be too string a word, people were mindful of their job and its inherent obligations.

eropple• 8 years ago

casual banter or engaging emotionally (see Starbucks and the let’s talk about race)

What you describe and what your parenthetical refers to are not the same thing.

dahdum2• 8 years ago

Parenthetical is referring to engaging emotionally. It’s not the same as talking about the weather, and invites passionate responses.

carapace2• 8 years ago

To date, the best job I have ever had, not in terms of pay but in terms of fulfillment and happiness in doing the work, was working as a barista in a neighborhood (non-chain) coffee shop. I really enjoyed sizing up each customer, trying to figure out what would brighten their morning and get them in the mood to tackle their day, all while executing a non-trivial dance of logistics to prepare the drinks properly and quickly, with a bit of finesse.

We were on a transit corridor so there was a big morning rush. You'd get to know the regulars to the point where you could queue up their drinks to be ready by the time they got to the register, get a good flow going. There's all kinds of people: bubbly chatters, grumpy don't-talk-to-me-until-coffee folks, etc. and it was really fun and rewarding to try to get each of them to leave with a smile. You couldn't always do it, of course, but for me I hope to retire to e.g. Shasta someday and open a little coffee shop and bookstore.

All that to say this: one of the reasons why I am excited about the automation econo-pacalypse and the rise of what we're calling "Universal Basic Income" is that it will relax the need for people to "earn a living" doing something they don't genuinely enjoy. A general relaxation of the "profit motive" will permit optimization along other, more congenial dimensions.

acjohnson552• 8 years ago

I don't know that it's safe to assume unconditional basic income is inevitable. There's not much precedent. But there's centuries of precedent for caste systems and serfdom. Although, I do share your enthusiasm for the idea.

carapace2• 8 years ago

I don't know that it's safe to assume unconditional basic income is inevitable.

Oh, I don't. I was reading Lovelock's "The Revenge of Gaia" this morning and now the only thing I think is inevitable is climate shift to a hot house mode. We'll be lucky if 0.1% of humanity threads that needle. It's not inevitable, but I don't think we'll change course rapidly enough to make it.

phyzome• 8 years ago

I wonder how this relates to the notion I've heard that faking a smile when you're feeling down can actually make you feel better. Any thoughts?

brokenmachine3• 8 years ago

The problem is that they're not faking a smile to make themselves feel better, they're being forced into faking a smile in an idiotic attempt to further line the pockets of their employers.

Also I think that faking a smile thing only works every now and then, not 1000x a day, every time another consumer wanders into your store.

If they really want to make them smile, employers should try making the conditions so good that the workers actually want to smile. Actually, no, god forbid! That might cost more...

Also, as a consumer, I really hate the fake smile, "how's your day?" kind of garbage. I just want to buy my items in peace, and if I need help, I'll ask for it thank you very much. As an introvert it really deters me from going into your stores.

artur_makly• 8 years ago

Living as a US expat-in Argentina has painfully proven the other extreme, where the staff does not work for tips, and where firing them for anything ( even stealing ) will get you the owner a heavy lawsuit where you will lose 99% of the time ( due to corruption )

So they basically have ZERO incentive to do any work and therefore their default face = "Cara de culo".

Intersestingly enough, as millions of new Venezuelans have immigrated, they have now become the most sought after service-industry workers, simply because they always smile, work hard, and very happy to have a job. Hopefully these market forces will have some nice overall affects on the whole.

tzs• 8 years ago

firing them for anything ( even stealing ) will get you the owner a heavy lawsuit where you will lose 99% of the time ( due to corruption )

That seems weird. How does corruption end up favoring the fired workers? Usually isn't it the business owners that have the resources to bribe or provide favors for corrupt officials to get their way? What do the fired workers have to offer to influence a corrupt official?

bsg75• 8 years ago

I have not come to understand the mindset behind what seems to be a new trend: Having multiple employees shout a greeting to every customer who walks in.

Does management really think this improves sales, service, or encourages repeat customers? Fake sincerity has to be exhausting for the staff (for the level repetition if no other reason), but I don’t expect most customers believe it’s genuine.

Edit: I notice this mostly in food and coffee shops. Others its a loss prevention approach in retail makes sense. But it seems uncommon to steal a sandwich made to order.

ImSkeptical• 8 years ago

Where I work the security guards greet you as you walk through the gate. I've always thought this was a mechanism for making sure the guards were paying attention. If someone comes in you have to look at the screen that shows their name (and image) and then look at the person to greet them. You are forced, in other words, to do a basic visual check of the image on screen versus the person walking through the gate.

An article I read yesterday mentioned that Japanese train workers will point and speak whenever they are doing something. This technique helps workers communicate and think about what they're doing and reduces mistakes.

Greeting customers as they enter may have similar effects. It makes sure someone notices the customer and acknowledges they are new. It lets the customer know they've been recognized as a new arrival. Acting like you're in a good mood may also help you feel that way too.

jey2• 8 years ago

My theory: this has more to do with loss prevention. If they make you feel seen, you are less likely to shoplift.

Spooks• 8 years ago

I noticed this happening at several grocery stores and some big box stores. With the grocery stores, 4 out of 5 times, the clerk will say something along the lines of "Oh I was looking for something like this" or "Oh that looks good, what are you using it for?"

One check out person, who seemed fairly new, ask me where I found a cleaning sponge... this was just a regular green sponge with blue on the other side for pots and pans. Ever since that time, their chit chat often seems forced.

everly• 8 years ago

I'm reminded of a passage about the "Professional Smile" from a David Foster Wallace essay:

You know this smile, the strenuous contraction of circumoral fascia w/ incomplete zygomatic involvement – the smile that doesn’t quite reach the smiler’s eyes and that signifies nothing more than a calculated attempt to advance the smiler’s own interests by pretending to like the smilee….Am I the only consumer in whom high doses of such a smile produce despair?...

And yet, the Professional Smile’s absence now also causes despair. Anybody who’s ever bought a pack of gum in a Mahattan cigar store, or asked for something to be stamped FRAGILE at a Chicago post office or tried to obtain a glass of water from a South Boston waitress knows full well the soul-crushing effect of a service workers’ scowl, i.e. the humiliation and resentment of being denied the Professional Smile. And the Professional Smile has by now skewed even my resentment at the dreaded Professional Scowl. I walk away from the Manhattan tobacconist resenting not the countermans’s character or absence of goodwill but his lack of professionalism in denying me the Smile. What a fucking mess.

holografix• 8 years ago

So eloquently described my own feelings! The professional smile is vastly more common in the San Francisco than Sydney. Often I’ve felt like telling waiters in Sydney: “You know I’m paying right? You’re not doing me a favour!” However at the same time I’ve felt myself in SF thinking: “I’m not your friend, I don’t want to tell you how my day was.”

oldcynic• 8 years ago

When I'm on the receiving end of scripted checkout conversations or "American style" extreme joy at my purchase of a £2 coffee I hate it. The restaurant that too brightly upsells us is the restaurant we never revisit.

I'd like just normal interactions with a range of people and to be able to leave thinking any conversation was real rather than an essential term of their contract of employment. No surprise that the best conversations and experiences are in small shops not chains with mandated policies.

When I first visited the US in the 90s the difference was quite marked, and it was quite a relief to get home. Now we've imported the approach wholesale. Course it's still perfectly possible for staff to smile, greet you in the corporate mandated manner whilst keeping 99% of their attention elsewhere and being diligently inefficient.

local_yokel• 8 years ago

Even more unnerving than the fake smile and general aggressiveness of retail workers / waiters to chat you up is when the pizza delivery guy tries to get personal by using your real name, as if we were at the pub sharing some jokes over a pint.

RickJWagner• 8 years ago

This is what's called "Being a Good Employee", and we all recognize it and appreciate it when it's us doing the buying.

No dark side here, only discipline and the recognition of opportunity for advancement to better things.

The dark side of “service with a smile”

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