Doing Y Combinator in your 30s

http://zencoder.com/encoder-blog/2010/09/21/doing-y-combinator-in-your-30s/http://zencoder.com/encoder-blog/2010/09/21/doing-y-combinator-in-your-30s/

by dannyr • 16 years ago

176 61 16 years ago

zencoder.com

wyclif• 16 years ago

I await the upcoming blog post "Doing Y Combinator in Your 40's." That's something I'd read immediately.

danielnicollet• 16 years ago

... and I want "Doing Y Combinator in Your 70's." Is that wrong kids?

RK• 16 years ago

The startup I was working for until recently (building scientific hardware) was founded by a couple in their 70's. They basically sunk all of their retirement money into it. I can't say that it was the best financial move in the world, especially when the economy went south and you're trying to sell $1M+ pieces of equipment.

jfb• 16 years ago

I was 38 when I started YC. I think that there are advantages to starting late, well enumerated in the linked blog post. I came to YC from Apple, which is about as stressful a "square job" as you're likely to find, and haven't really encountered anything in startup life that's worse than staring down a Jobs imposed deadline that you Just. Can't. Hit.

Jun8• 16 years ago

I'm in my 40s and aligning things to apply for YC, so, YES, I would not only read that article but print and frame it!

dirktheman• 16 years ago

Thank you for sharing this. I'm 31 too, and currently working on my YC application. In my case, I'm even more focused on making things work because I have a mortgage to pay and a family to support. A lean burn rate is one of the means to this end.

tptacek7• 16 years ago

If you're technical and you think you've got enough hustle to start a company, you can run at an arbitrary standard of living for a long time as a 1099 contractor.

I'm past arguing that YC isn't worth it because the money is too small and getting funded is a bad trajectory[1]; the program has clearly been a huge win for a lot of people. But you can execute the 37signals playbook after attending YC. Just go, launch, and then consult.

If you have a 3-person team with a strong dev that has a short runway, that dev should have no trouble picking up 1-2 month projects to keep himself going with the company. It is so straightforward to do this, the money is so good, and the commitments are so flexible that I'm led to question the "you should make as little as possible" advice.

Why burn your family out? There's no points for effort, only for execution.

I'm 34, for what it's worth.

[1] I still believe both those things, though.

maxawaytoolong2• 16 years ago

Recent events in my personal life have led me to believe you can get "dumb money" with reasonable terms in NYC. So if you just need the dough, it's no problem these days... any idea and founders with a pulse will do. Get in on it while it lasts...

tptacek7• 16 years ago

The biggest problem with getting money isn't getting the money; it's what strings are attached to the money.

People think this is an abstraction. My VC-funded company hired a CEO (who I like) who decided our A-round-funded company was optimally positioned to go head-to-head with Akamai. I saw a board at another company wage a guerilla war against its management team. The threat here is not abstract.

jon_dahl7• 16 years ago

Without turning this into "37signals vs. Y Combinator", let's just say there are pros and cons to each approach.

One of the cons of contracting is can be really hard to divide your attention in a startup. If there is any possible way you can devote 100% of your attention to a startup, then by all means, do it. I'm 10x more productive when I put 100% of my time into a startup instead of 50%. 10x, not 2x. Just my experience.

On the other hand, contracting is a great backup plan. It kept Zencoder alive in the early days, and we still do some video-related consulting work to reduce our burn and compliment our encoding service.

There's no points for effort, only for execution.

Well said. Mind if I use that? :)

tptacek7• 16 years ago

Contracting is very distracting. But it's distracting in a different way than a full-time job. And I think it's game-changing for lean startups in a way that may moot some of the concern about concentration.

First, contracting requires hustle just like moving a product does. It's an investment decision (of time, rather than money) in a way that a 9-5 job can't be. It involves company building and has knock-on effects (recruiting, applications for IP) that can help the product business. And it is flexible.

And this whole notion that you need unbreakable concentration to start a company seems like an extension of the idea that there's a runway, launch, and hockey-stick curve to all product businesses. But those things that yo' liable to read in de blog posts, they ain't necessarily so. Particularly if you have a functioning consulting engine.

I'm less familiar with direct-to-consumer products than most people on HN are; I sell to businesses. The overlap between selling services to companies and selling products to companies is significant. Maybe you should consider something businesses want, so you have options besides getting shot out of the VC cannon.

danilocampos• 16 years ago

Any advice on filling a contracting pipeline with clients while trying to make the most of your early core work too?

_b8r02• 16 years ago

If you put 100% into your startup you'll get 100% out. If you're constantly chasing the dollars/pounds/euros/crores then your startup is under constant pressure to become a side project.

What things like YC do is give you the opportunity to make the idea your full time job with full attention. The money isn't necessarily great but the network is. The alternative is that you raise the money elsewhere and do without the network. If the benefits of that network outweigh the potential later costs of Ycombinator, I'd say do YCombinator. If you need the money and YC is where it's at, do YC. If not, find out how much burn you'd need for a year and go contracting to save up the cash. You can normally get enough money contracting in a year for a further two of frugal living or one for several frugal folk. If you can't get traction there, then you have a problem that YC might not be able to solve.

tptacek7• 16 years ago

You can put 105% into a startup and get 0% out.

You can put 20% into a startup and get 10000% out.

Real life is not like an inspirational half time locker room speech. A lot of these companies you see putting 100% in, I see setting themselves up for failure by betting their lives on a plan that only works if they grab the rope, jump over the scorpion, and hop on exactly the right sequence of crocodile mouths. They don't have to do that. DHH just had Zonda commission a supercar for him. Did he put 100% in during 37signals first year?[1]

[1] Hint: no.

gigantor2• 16 years ago

I'm in my 30's and I feel I have one huge advantage over numerous 20-somethings: ability to do short term contract work, and fund the startup that way. This is assuming :

a) you have enough networking/experience to land sufficient paid contract work fairly easily b) your short term contract (3-6 months) can provide you just enough income to keep you going for the rest of the year.

Sure, I certainly don't have the careless energy level as I had in my 20's, and have a lot more responsibility, but the ability to work smarter, having a better eye for what may or may not work through experience, and identifying the right people to hang out with surely makes up for the shortcomings.

Last, but this is huge for me personally, is the feeling of 'this is my last chance' that's ever more so prevalent now than in my 20's, where I always knew I had some leeway years left as an excuse to not put in 100%.

kapitti• 16 years ago

I'm not sure someone that was going to perform short term contracting during YC would get accepted.

gigantor2• 16 years ago

Certainly not, but the idea behind contracting is that you make enough to fund yourself, and therefore not require YC money in the first place. Most YC amounts are around the $20k range, which you can easily make with a few months of contracting.

sunir• 16 years ago

The post-investment salary rule is something a lot of people trip over, but it's important. The rule is simple:

Pay yourself enough that you're not thinking about taking a part-time job to support yourself (and your family). You should be able to focus on the startup without financial distraction.

You don't need money to put into savings. You don't need a fancy car. You don't need fine dining. You're sacrificing now for the chance at big upside later. Every dollar you waste on yourself is hurting your chances of bigger success.

dpapathanasiou• 16 years ago

You don't need money to put into savings.

I was with you except for that; having savings is important, especially if the company fails.

joshuacc• 16 years ago

I think he meant that you don't need to be putting current income into savings.

Tichy2• 16 years ago

Is bringing spouse and kid along an option at all? Also if you are from overseas - is it possible with visa?

rgrieselhuber2• 16 years ago

I was in Japan, brought my wife and two kids with me, am 35 and am a single founder. Ha! Didn't need a visa though, but there are ways of making work if you do.

datsro• 16 years ago

If you hope to focus on the work as often as you can, I would recommend not bringing the kids. It can be done but boundaries need to be in place for your spouse/kids and your co-founders.

rgrieselhuber2• 16 years ago

If you can stand to be away from them for more than a day. I can't.

brandonarbini• 16 years ago

It's possible for sure, but definitely tough. My family came with me, but we were only together on the weekends. Without a doubt it was one of the hardest, most stretching, and most valuable experiences of my life.

eric93• 16 years ago

Programmer. Smart and driven. Went to MIT or Stanford, or else skipped college altogether.

Am I the only one who sometimes feels like you might as well have skipped college if you didn't go to Stanford, MIT, or some other top school? Anything else seems to be considered Blub U., and Google and the other cool companies that you would like to work for don't hire from Blub U.

Maybe this is why so many hackers who didn't get into MIT or some other top school turn to entrepreneurship; degree or no degree, the job opportunities aren't so hot otherwise.

seiji• 16 years ago

It's just talk. Ignore them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Buchheit "went to college at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio."

eric93• 16 years ago

Notice, it says he was employee #23. I think Google's standards have risen since then, and even if they make the odd exception here and there, betting on being such an exception seems questionable.

fortes• 16 years ago

I wouldn't put Case Western in the category of Blub U. It's a solid, possibly top tier, tech university.

liuliu• 16 years ago

I've applied Google for summer intern 2010. At that time, I was second year student and haven't taken any computer science courses. I've had a solid resume background (startup experiences/open source project/good university etc.) but I never get any feedback from Google regarding the internship. So I ended up to spend my summer in Facebook. It was a pleasant experience, and I would never consider to apply Google again.

jon_dahl7• 16 years ago

Am I the only one who sometimes feels like you might as well have skipped college if you didn't go to Stanford, MIT, or some other top school?

I don't think so. MIT or Stanford help a little (like 10% when raising money or looking for a job), but at the end of the day, the degree doesn't really matter. For some people, going to a state school or small college is the right path to take. For others, skipping school altogether is the right path. Go to college, or skip college, for other reasons.

dgallagher• 16 years ago

Dave Thomas founded Wendy's when he was ~37 years old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Thomas_(American_businessm...

Sam Walton founded Wal-Mart when he was ~44: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Walton#The_first_Wal-Mart

Henry Ford founded Ford when he was ~40: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_ford#Ford_Motor_Company

muhfuhkuh• 16 years ago

Oracle was started when Larry Ellison was 33.

JoeAltmaier• 16 years ago

ANd a thousand others were founded by people of all ages. Not really statistically significant, but interesting.

edanm• 16 years ago

Funny story: I was looking for a domain name for my blog. I have a Taoism/Zen theme, so I registered a few names in that genre (like "The Tao of Code").

As I was looking around, I tried ZenCoder. I was annoyed to see that it was already in use, but I quickly forgot about it. A few months later, I started reading about them in Tech Crunch and on HN!

I ended up going with LoopyCode.com.

pwim• 16 years ago

If age doesn't matter, why is it on the application form to YC?

jon_dahl7• 16 years ago

Good question. My guess: age helps put other accomplishments in context. "Worked at Google for 6 years" means different things if you're 35 than if you're 21.

jpuderer• 16 years ago

I'm in a similar boat. I'm 31, married, with no kids so far. I quit my job to pursue a startup. It's good timing for me.

To be a successful founder, I don't think that it makes a lot of difference how old you are, but it does make a significant different where you are in life. I think this manifests itself most if you're trying to find a co-founder.

Most founders in their early 20s have very little in the way of assets or obligations to speak of. This makes finding a compatible co-founder in the same age group much easier. Everyone starts out in a similar situation.

On the other hand, founders in their 30s have had a lot more time to complicate their situation (for better or worse): kids, marriage, mortgage, and money. Finding a co-founder is more difficult, since accommodating both potential founders can be more difficult. There's more to accommodate.

In my social circles, there tend to be more complicated situations than simple ones.

Does anyone have any experience to share?

dean• 16 years ago

Y Combinator is strictly for college kids. The restriction is based not on age, but on money. Older people are implicitly excluded because they can't afford to give up their income to pursue a startup. Wife, kids and a mortgage cost money.

As a result, I think the Y Combinator startup market is only a fraction of what it could be, if older founders could be included. I imagine there would be so many more and different ideas than what we currently see.

I think a Y Combinator-like incubator, that provides enough funding for older founders, would thrive. If funding was in the range of say 70K to 90K per founder, many more companies could be started. And really, that's still not a lot of money for the VC/Angel/Incubator industry. It wouldn't take too many hits to make a profit for the funders with these numbers.

Despite what the original post says, Y Combinator is implicitly intended for college-age kids. And that's fine. But think of how many more opportunities there could be for both Y Combinator and founders, if the funding available could support older people.

Doing Y Combinator in your 30s

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