Stochastic – Create and manage contracts backed by Bitcoin

https://stochastic.xyz/

by r32a_ • 8 years ago

65 41 8 years ago

stochastic.xyz

r32a_14• 8 years ago

Example Contract:

https://stochastic.xyz/contract/5afcd83c45d61c3b7457c7e0

realPubkey• 8 years ago

So the contract is written in plain text an not even mentions who gets paid what and when.

Is this system a joke? Not a single judge could decide based on this.

r32a_14• 8 years ago

This is an example contract proposal.

Contractors must login to place a bid on this contract with their public key.

Real contracts on the application have very thorough proposals.

This is just a proof of concept.

Klathmon2• 8 years ago

That's like blaming a paper mill because someone wrote something stupid on a piece of paper.

This is a service that lets you write whatever you want as your "contract". Saying the system is a joke because some people write bad contracts is stupid.

advisedwang• 8 years ago

How did you pick the name "Stochastic"? Surely randomness is the last thing you want in a contracts system?

r32a_14• 8 years ago

We want to help tame the randomness :)

rajacombinator• 8 years ago

Yea sometimes one should consider the meaning of a word even if it sounds cool ...

coralreef• 8 years ago

How the service handles arbitration will be the most interesting thing about this. Contracts will always be disputable and terms open to interpretation.

The reputation of the business will ultimately depend on how sound and fair that process is.

r32a_14• 8 years ago

We will do our best to resolve any possible dispute, it is in our best interest that all parties are happy with the outcome of a dispute so they come back to use the application.

djangowithme• 8 years ago

Centralization :(

JustFinishedBSG• 8 years ago

Bitcoin startup
Needs Trusted third party

woah• 8 years ago

Somehow I have a feeling that a major motivation for this project was to have a chance to say "Bitcoin smart contracts"

r32a_14• 8 years ago

You are correct!

Technically every Bitcoin transaction is a smart contract, the language of the contract is Bitcoin Script (Forth-like, stack-based language, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script).

Currently, we are only using P2WSH to create 2/2 and 2/3 Multi-sigs but in the future, we hope to create other types of contracts with different clauses and also an easy to use UI to accompany it.

Boulth• 8 years ago

How do you get these contracts accepted? According to https://curiosity-driven.org/bitcoin-contracts :

Transactions containing non-standard scripts like these will not be relied through the Bitcoin network but if they are included in a block they will be accepted by the standard client.

ulrikrasmussen• 8 years ago

How are the contracts expressed? The web page does not seem to provide any details on that part, which seems rather crucial. Are they written in some domain specific language?

r32a_14• 8 years ago

The contract proposal is entered by the contract owner, in a regular text field, we also allow you to submit attachments (PDF)

As for the Bitcoin transactions, it is multi-sig 2/2 then a multi-sig 2/3

speedplane• 8 years ago

If you haven't already, take a look at Stanford's CodeX group. They have a deep history working with smart contract startups, and are generally very open to providing a bit of marketing heft and connections in this space. Happy to provide a contact, email me if you'd like an intro.

r32a_14• 8 years ago

Thanks. Will do! :)

mirekrusin• 8 years ago

Not to be confused with ethereum smart contracts where the code can be complex and encoded logic decides what is allowed, not a intermediary human being.

tom_mellior3• 8 years ago

Right. Nothing about the example contract at https://stochastic.xyz/contract/5afcd83c45d61c3b7457c7e0 seems "smart" in the sense that that word is usually used, i.e., a contract implemented in a piece of machine code.

As far as I can tell, this is basically a job board for contractors who want to be paid in Bitcoin. There is a bit of innovation with the "proof of funds" meaning that the contractor can be sure-ish that the money they are meant to be paid actually exists. There are no further guarantees, and disputes are handled by humans.

r32a_14• 8 years ago

Correct. During a dispute, there is no way around human intervention, unless A.I evolves to that point.

As it stands we just handle processing of multi-sig contracts

swift532• 8 years ago

Nice, I'm glad this exists. It would be a great credibility boost if people could specify a mediator that is not stochastic, and the mediator's identity was clearly displayed in the UI.

P.S.

You have some small errors in the "Security first" section:

  No Bitcoins of any of contracts will be withheld by Stochastic.

r32a_14• 8 years ago

Thanks for picking that up!

I agree with you, we are exploring allowing law professionals join to become professional mediators and of course be compensated for their services.

The mediators could be spread around the world and they can even visit contract locations if it is required. These services already exist but for large transactions, think international trade.

rrggrr2• 8 years ago

Radically honest assessment:

- BTC volatility makes the contract pricing (budget) and proof of funds a moving target.

- Its not even a semi-autonomous smart contract, so enforcement requires the same legal expense to enforce as a normal contract.

- Jury.io is a year ahead, and I've not checked recently but I believe Allegro is as well.

There is no innovation here. I wish there was b/c we could use a fully vetted product like this.

tom_mellior3• 8 years ago

Jury.io is a year ahead

The jury.io that redirects to http://yourather.com/, a toy website? Or did you mean https://juro.com/? That's a website where "customers can generate, negotiate and sign contracts through one integrated platform and then learn from the rich data that contracts contain". That's great, but it doesn't seem to be at all what Stochastic wants to do, which is to keep money in escrow until the contract is fulfilled. (I guess you could combine those.)

Allegro is as well

Have a link? I do find stuff when searching the web for "allegro contracts", but it turns out that the name is much too generic to guess what you mean.

kossae• 8 years ago

I think the jury.io reference should have been to https://jury.online/ ... but only guessing here.

r32a_14• 8 years ago

We are aware of the price volatility issue, this problem is widespread in all of crypto. There are ways around this issue this issue.

We are currently only doing fixed price contracts. However, it is possible to create other types of contracts like a Fixed Price + Variable contract. The variable can be the USD/BTC exchange rate and Stochastic can act as an Oracle to the smart contract.

I agree escrow and contracting application aren't anything new in Bitcoin but so far no one has been able to make it work.

As for Jury.online, I wish them success, but I don't think we are in the same space. I see Stochastic closer to traditional contract management software like Conga and GateKeeper

Stochastic – Create and manage contracts backed by Bitcoin

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