UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/31/what-if-ubercab-pulls-an-airbnb-taxi-business-could-finally-get-some-disruption/

by yish • 16 years ago

116 103 16 years ago

kijuhyujk• 16 years ago

The taxi medalion is a little more than a price fix in some cities, such as London.

Buying from somebody wih a zero rep on ebay means you might lose out on your beanie baby. Putting your daughter in a random strangers car with no information other than them owning (or having stolen) an iphone is a little different.

amirmc3• 16 years ago

Very good point about (potential) stolen iPhones but your argument still applies to the current system. It's still a stranger in a car, they just happen to be sent under the banner of a company.

If the taxi firm itself implemented (or used a version) of this kind of service then that could be a great win for the firm.

sorbus• 16 years ago

Everything about anyone being able to join the network and become a taxi driver (from about the sixth paragraph onwards) is pure speculation; technically, there's nothing preventing it (well, aside from modifying the app to require more than hitting a button), but they haven't done so yet, and might not. Currently, they're contracted with black car services, so professional drivers who are probably at least as safe as a taxi driver (unless I'm horribly misreading this).

However, if they are considering moving in that direction (again, no proof of that), your criticism is really important to consider, and might be a pretty big limitation. I'm sure that there are ways around it, but only if the network of drivers is heavily moderated, with lots and lots of safe-guards built in. Also, not allowing children/teens to ride unless accompanied by an adult, and adding some sort of panic button to the app.

amirmc3• 16 years ago

It'll be really interesting to how much disintermediation takes place as a result of UberCab. I expect they'd need to expand beyond iOS to get scale but that should be possible.

In the UK there are lots of regulations surrounding Private Hire vehicles and Taxis, some of those rules are regional too. I doubt I'd see something, like this here but the firms should definitely be aware.

ari_• 16 years ago

This may work in SFO. But does anyone know if the town car companies in NYC (Dial 7, Carmel etc etc etc) have overcapacity issues?

In the everyone is a taxi model- do you really want to get into a car without knowing how that person drives? There are people in my own family I won't drive with, let alone pay them to drive me somewhere.

grandalf3• 16 years ago

The argument about not knowing how someone drives applies to any bus, taxi, etc., regardless of how it was booked so long as you haven't ridden with the driver before.

nickpinkston• 16 years ago

I worry about them getting AirBnB'ed. I'm a big fan of AirBnB and CS, and I've often thought I'd be happy to do a fare when I've got a hour or so between meetings.

smoody• 16 years ago

a friend of a good friend of mine was brutally raped by an independent Lincoln Town Car licensed driver (in NYC). I would advise (my personal opinion) women to avoid such services and deal with the hassle of getting a cab. Getting into a stranger's car and closing the door behind you is an action that should not be taken lightly. That is why I always take a taxi or use a well-established car service (as in substantial with a fleet of cars) instead of trusting someone who is able to drive you around because he/she filled out an application and leased a fancy black car. At least there is some accountability with taxi and fleet drivers. And unless UberCab does serious due dilligence on their drivers (perhaps they do?), I would stay away from this service (again, if I were a woman).

Edit: Please note that I do not mean to imply that all car drivers are bad people. I am confident that the majority of them are good, honest people trying to make a living the best way they can.

grandalf3• 16 years ago

It seems that the rating system might have prevented this... maybe others thought the driver was "creepy", etc. and might have given him/her a bad rating, which might have dissuaded your friend from choosing his/her car.

yummyfajitas12• 16 years ago

Certainly the fact that the driver is completely traceable (more so than a yellow cab driver) would dissuade most criminally inclined cabbies.

mechanical_fish• 16 years ago

This article has to be read very carefully. Near the beginning it says:

UberCab contracts with black car services – mostly Towncars and Escalades

That suggests that they are probably doing some due diligence.

My friends the management consultants report that they use these black-car services all the time. You think a business traveler with a big expense account hails one of those yellow cabs, like me and the rest of the plebes? ;)

The follow-up idea of dispatching cab traffic to any random idiot with a Lincoln Town Car, an iPhone, and a possible drug problem seems to be Arrington's idea. It is, as you point out, a pretty lousy idea. [1] But don't blame UberCab.

---

[1] I should know. I had this idea five years ago. Then I conducted a thirty-minute thought experiment and decided that the due diligence would be annoying and not my cup of tea.

mturmon• 16 years ago

It used to be standard advice in women's self-defense classes (e.g., http://modelmugging.org/) to avoid at all costs being coerced into a vehicle. Being in a vehicle with an assailant was said to lower your odds of escaping considerably.

lionhearted• 16 years ago

Also - learn martial arts. I took Krav Maga, there were plenty of women in the class, and the techniques translate well to self defense even if you're not as big or strong as your assailant. They teach you to attack vulnerable areas - eyes and groin in particular - and how to break chokes, deal with someone trying to pick you up off the ground, things like that. Everyone who travels or otherwise has a not 100% safe routine should take 10-20 martial arts classes. Might save your life.

Edit: Can't resist an anecdote. There was a huge Russian instructor in one of our classes, and the class that day was about half women. He said, "Ok, man tries to rape you? Rip his eyes, like this. See? Rip! He can't see now for rest of life? Tough shit! Should not have tried rape you."

(Despite the machismo of how this might look in text, it was well received in person - a good community, good people, good training, very welcoming to everyone at any level of age or fitness. Definitely recommended, almost any studio will give you a free class so just google for your area and go take one. Really, it's awesome.)

keltex• 16 years ago

Sound like a nice idea, but unfortunately taxis are a regulated industry in most major cities (e.g. NYC, Boston, Chicago). The difference between a taxi and non-taxi are usually that a taxi license or medallion is required in order to legally stop for somebody hailing down a cab on a street.

If this service became at all popular, it is very likely that cities would immediately include "mobile hailing" as also requiring a license. The entrenched interests of the taxi companies are simply too big (and they have the political clout) to let this one slide under the radar.

patio113• 16 years ago

Medallions are a conspiracy against the public, especially the poor and minorities, who both are disproportionately refused cab service and prevented from lawfully pursuing a value-creating occupation in their communities which requires only modest capital and no special training.

See also hairdressing regulations and a host of others.

I could be persuaded there exists an optimum amount of regulation for compensated car rides north of that for uncompensated car rides, but medallions have to go. With market values in the six figures though, good luck: holders have solid incentives for corruption like their lives depend on it, but the average citizen just gets minority overcharged, and the worst affected do not vote or matter in most political calculuses.

tptacek16• 16 years ago

Disagree. The policies behind medallions may be stupid and unfair, but their existence provides a mechanism of accountability (you can lose them, and they're hellaciously expensive) that doesn't exist with iPhone dispatch.

It doesn't surprise you that cab drivers in Chicago basically never drive you to random destinations, or change fares midway through the ride? The goodness of cab driver hearts isn't what's preventing it.

jfager13• 16 years ago

I don't know about other places, but here in NYC, in the poorer neighborhoods in Brooklyn at least, there's a thriving system of taxi alternatives. You'll frequently see cars or vans packed full of people getting rides for a buck or two, and the cops don't seem to pay much attention to it.

In Manhattan or other parts of the city, I don't see how this kind of thing could compete with the yellow cabs or the car services. People have the money to pay the higher prices, and there are enough horror stories (true or not) floating around that very few would see it as worth the risk.

snorkel• 16 years ago

The limited supply of taxi medallions is a good thing otherwise city streets would be clogged with taxis even more so than now.

amirmc3• 16 years ago

In the UK, 'mobile hailing' would be equivalent to pre-booking. In many parts of the UK pre-booked cabs are referred to as Private Hire vehicles. The only cabs you can hail on the street are Hackney Carriages. I believe unlicensed minicabs are illegal in the UK but London still seems to have problems with them.

For both Private Hire and Hackney Carriages, the cars/drivers are licensed and must meet regulatory requirements regarding vehicles and insurance policies. I believe the requirements for Hackney Carriages are more stringent.

Those licences exist to protect the public.

For both types of licensed drivers, UberCab would be a great extension. However, I can only imagine it working if the taxi firms themselves were willing to implement it.

far33d• 16 years ago

I used cabulous to hail a cab in San Francisco this weekend. Very similar service, but uses medallion taxis with regular meter rates. You have to pay the driver normally. It was a great experience and I imagine these types of services will be commodity eventually.

obiefernandez• 16 years ago

Various commenters are saying that cities would simply define "mobile hailing" as also requiring a license. Okay, maybe, but would it matter? How would it be enforced? And could any particular city hold UberCab liable? Enough to force them to stop?

The whole concept sounds particularly disruptive because it seems that it would be so difficult to police.

yardie2• 16 years ago

If the cabbies complain loud enough I'm sure they can set up a sting. Nothing stopping them from downloading the same app and hailing a ubercab. When you can't present a medallion or commercial drivers license you're busted.

And there is nothing stopping them from going into court and throwing water on the whole thing with an injunction.

tptacek16• 16 years ago

You think the police are unwilling to hail a cab over this service?

jtbigwoo3• 16 years ago

It doesn't take very many prostitution arrests to encourage the trade to move elsewhere. I imagine that a group of officers with iPhones could arrest thirty or forty uber-cabbies in an afternoon. It could be _very_ lucrative for the city if the statute was modified to allow the police to confiscate the vehicle used in the "crime."

yardie2• 16 years ago

It's a cool idea. And an evolution of black car service (they have to be called and don't normally solicit for work).

As like any other hire service, they operate under a difference set of rules. They have to be licensed, need to meet size requirements, and they have to carry much more insurance.

Some random driver with a pickup and just basic PIP coverage probably wouldn't be a good choice. Especially if you are paying for it.

Also, reading their website, they are very interested in working with limo companies and cab services not random guy with 30 minutes to spare. So no, this is not like AirBNB, at all.

sethg• 16 years ago

Is “everyone could be a cabbie” really such a lucrative prospect, from the drivers’ point of view? My understanding is that when you take into account the uncertainty of income, the fixed cost of leasing and maintaining a cab (of course, part of this is the cost of leasing the medallion), and the risk of passengers attacking you or simply not paying, cab drivers don’t net that much money... which may be one reason why, at least in Boston and NYC, cabbies tend to be immigrants.

jtbigwoo3• 16 years ago

Driving a gypsy cab (which is what ubercab is) is a dangerous business. In the 90's, New York averaged something like 2 murdered cabbies a month. And those drivers were only being robbed for a small amount of cash.

This application could be very attractive for car jackers. A bad guy could simply place and order for an out-of-the-way alley or warehouse and know that the cabbie they hail is going to be driving a really nice car.

A would-be car jacker would need to use a stolen iPhone and credit card in order to keep from getting caught right away, but that's hardly an insurmountable barrier.

bravura• 16 years ago

Your comment is specious.

In the 90's, New York averaged something like 2 murdered cabbies a month.

Uh... NYC was a dangerous place in the mid 90's. Do you have evidence that the gypsy cabs were targets more than yellow cabs?

It's not the gypsy cabs that were the problem, it was the customers.

A would-be car jacker would need to use a stolen iPhone and credit card in order to keep from getting caught right away, but that's hardly an insurmountable barrier.

In that case, UberCab would need a stronger way to identify users. For example, you enter the cab, and the cabbie takes a photo of you with his iPhone UberCab app and uploads first thing.

jtbigwoo3• 16 years ago

Uh... NYC was a dangerous place in the mid 90's. Do you have evidence that the gypsy cabs were targets more than yellow cabs?

Yep. http://www.taxi-library.org/marosi.htm

"Out of the 85 total cab drivers killed in 1992 and 1993, for instance, only 12 drove yellow cabs."

The difference here is that gypsy cab drivers work in more dangerous neighborhoods that are underserved by big taxi companies. I suppose ubercab drivers could just avoid those same neighborhoods...

tlrobinson2• 16 years ago

I've tried Ubercab a bunch of times, and the two times I actualy got a cab were a good experience. It's really nice not having to fumble with cash or a card for payment. Plus you get to ride in a towncar/SUV/etc. It is a bit more expensive though.

joshwa• 16 years ago

Here's a great article on the biggest car service in Brooklyn-- Arecibo (their base station is around the corner from where I live). Many interesting details about the economics, technology, and politics of the livery business in NYC:

http://nymag.com/print/?/news/features/54678/

From a safety perspective, in NYC it's illegal (and not a good idea) to hail a non-yellow-medallioned taxi on the street. They likely don't have a TLC license, and may or may not be affiliated with a larger fleet.

Call the service's base station--they might not perform background checks on the drivers, but they'll be licensed and insured. The services have an incentive to weed out the bad drivers-- if they get a reputation for spotty service or creepy guys, then customers will switch to the car service down the block (there is healthy competition in this market-- they are constantly splitting off and trying to poach each others' drivers).

javan• 16 years ago

It's illegal to drive and text message in California; their drivers more or less have to break the law to participate.

tmsh• 16 years ago

Just thinking about what forces might prevent the industry from being disrupted (regardless of whether/how this is good for the public):

I think the biggest innovation is the drivers rating the customers. It seems like a joke, but if you think about it, professional car service drivers aren't going to want to pick up just anybody for short rides. That's the real obstacle for scalability among that group. The obstacle for getting all cab drivers to join UberCab is probably the risk of alienating the customer base that might just want town cars, etc., without having to think about the complexity (i.e., it's a software problem, and a pretty easy software problem if done right). The other obstacle is the cost of an iphone, etc., for cab drivers. The obstacles for anybody with a car to join are medallions, licenses, etc., as mentioned. The other obstacle is, even with licenses, the fairness and effectiveness of the rating system is tough. Service history is a mixed blessing. When I step into a cab, I may not actually want to know about the driver's history. I may just want a nearly 100% guaranteed level of service (which theoretically the medallions provide). Though on the other hand it would be crazy to see like average on-time trips, average speeds, customer satisfactions, etc., in one big visual thumbprint before you step into a cab...

jonknee• 16 years ago

The first time an UberCab driver gets into a wreck without insurance or licensing should be interesting. I can see this being very useful for legitimate car services, but they need to do serious due diligence to make sure their drivers are legitimate. Mike's dream of anyone becoming an UberCab driver would be a legal nightmare.

mkramlich2• 16 years ago

this is practical innovation. we need more startups like this.

mkramlich2• 16 years ago

what I like about this is the rider has an iPhone so while the cabbie is transporting him the rider can see the Google Maps routing path, and compare that to the actual position and route the cabbie is taking. If they differ significantly the rider can know he's getting scammed. Technically the rider could do this without UberTaxi as long as he has an iPhone, but since UberTaxi depends on the rider having an iPhone app, it comes along for free.

ccarpenterg• 16 years ago

I thought about building something like this.

Pay from the app: No cash required

That's a powerful feature and it could become a very sticky app for me if I lived in San Francisco.

maxawaytoolong3• 16 years ago

This will work in SF because taxis don't do a good job for the class of people who own iPhones. In NYC, the class of people who own iPhones are already well-served by cabs.

jlees• 16 years ago

I'd think of this as more on-demand towncar than a new type of taxi-disrupting the limo business rings far more true. For the slightly upscale customer who wants privacy and looks and can pay a bit more. And not for women, dear god no. But women don't use technology anyway, right?

I was thinking about a similar idea and also the parallel concept of "AirBnB for passenger seats", rather than unused towncar inventory, an easier way to "book" a carpool ride from someone who's already going that way. You just run into a ton of tangles around insurance, carpooling vs taxi licenses, scaling especially abroad, and the fact that one bad driver - one accident - could completely ruin your entire business.

I do think there's potential in disrupting the taxi business, though my current angle of thought is more about using technology, especially cleantech and mobile bookings, to make it a low cost planet-friendly business. Just the thought of all those exhaust fumes scares me. Go EcoTaxis!

UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

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