In 1973, I invented Baileys

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/in-1973-i-invented-a-girly-drink-called-baileys-1.3240945?mode=amp

by johnny313 • 9 years ago

221 101 9 years ago

veb• 9 years ago

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that the real heroes of ideas are not the people who have them – they are the people who buy them.

I love this quote. That was a great read.

gt_2• 9 years ago

As a person with a lot of ideas and very little money, I don't like it as much.

NOTE: This isn't about what makes money. It's about what makes heroes.

greglindahl• 9 years ago

It takes money to make money.

bigiain• 9 years ago

You don't have to like it (most ideas guys" wont).But you do need to acknowledge it's inevitable financial truth.

If you don't have ideas that someone else buys, you'll remain the person with all the ideas and none of the money.

(And if your ideas are "heroic", it will 100% take a hero to fund them...)

I really like that phrase, because it takes the "conventional startup wisdom" that "ideas without execution are worthless" to the next and obvious-to-outsiders step - even a well executed idea than nobody will pay for - is, by definition, worthless.

jacobolus• 9 years ago

For an idea-buyer hero, how about Licklider? https://amzn.com/0670899763/

Theodores• 9 years ago

So true when it comes to founder logic - must have a co-founder or some team to get anywhere in Y Combinator world.

It also applies to cults, the mad guy that claims to be Jesus is ignored until his first fan comes along and 'believes' him, this then enables others to 'believe' too.

Larrikin• 9 years ago

People nowadays often ask me how much money we get per bottle sold. My answer is that we were paid about £3,000 all-in for the development

This is an awful part of a great read.

sogen2• 9 years ago

It’s the same for graphic designers, make a logo and get paid once, no matter how large the company...

irrational2• 9 years ago

Sometimes you get paid more than once.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2004273/Woman-design...

hbosch• 9 years ago

Same for anyone who works on contract, in any industry. Designers will obviously charge more money depending on the size and budget of the client...

WalterBright6• 9 years ago

I was an engineer at Boeing, designing airplane parts. Was I ripped off because I don't get an ongoing royalty for every 757 sold? Engineering is creative work, too.

kristiandupont• 9 years ago

..and for everything else. Several of companies that I have worked for are still using code that I wrote without continuously paying me for it. That was what we agreed on so I don't see any injustice.

mehwoot• 9 years ago

Well that's the trade. You get a guaranteed pay, the company assumes the risk and gets the reward. In dollars today it would be about $45,000- and think of all the times they would have done that development and the product didn't take off.

WalterBright6• 9 years ago

Ideas aren't really worth that much. Everybody has ideas. It's the execution, and the risk taking, where the money is.

ryguytilidie• 9 years ago

It reminds me of the scene on The Wire with the chicken mcnuggets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyg_v7Vxo4A

taneq• 9 years ago

If you want to get paid more than a one-time flat fee, don't sell your IP. It's that simple.

esquivalience2• 9 years ago

Despite appearances, there's no IP in a recipe.

alistairSH• 9 years ago

You missed the second part of the sentence... * ...though the company did keep employing me for another 30 years.*

Sounds like he parlayed the Bailey's idea into a career-spanning contract (or full-time gig, not sure which). That's far from a bad outcome.

fcbrooklyn• 9 years ago

"Hugh looked at me with an almost earnest stare. “What would happen if we mixed Irish whiskey and cream?” he said. “That might be interesting.” He sat back and waited for a response.

“Let’s try it,” I replied. Where Hugh was more likely to intellectualise and think through the appalling consequences of dropping cream into Ireland’s beloved whiskey, I was all for doing it there and then."

Now, I ain't no lawyer, but to me this sounds like Hugh invented it, no?

vermilingua• 9 years ago

He may have had the original idea, but Macpherson refined it into the specific formula that became Bailey's. There is a distinction to be made.

ProAm6• 9 years ago

"Idea's are worth a nickel, execution is worth..."

0xbear4• 9 years ago

That’s what people who never have any decent ideas like to say to those who do.

nikdaheratik• 9 years ago

I think if it was something patentable, they'd have both been listed as inventors. And the same goes for other achievements, like the Nobel Prize which can have three shared winners in a year, but no one says "I won 1/3 of a Nobel Prize"

hyperpallium• 9 years ago

We mixed the two ingredients in our kitchen, tasted the result and it was certainly intriguing, but in reality bloody awful. Undaunted, we threw in some sugar and it got better, but it still missed something.
We went back to the store, searching the shelves for something else, found our salvation in Cadbury’s Powdered Drinking Chocolate and added it to our formula. Hugh and I were taken by surprise. It tasted really good. Not only this, but the cream seemed to have the effect of making the drink taste stronger, like full-strength spirit. It was extraordinary.

They iterated, but not because they thought the product would taste great, but because it fitted nicely with business and marketing considerations: tax breaks and diary connotations. I guess it's serendipity that they found the combination so quickly, and would have otherwise given up after a while.

Quitters never win and winners never quit, but those who never win and never quit are idiots.

rxhernandez2• 9 years ago

Some people only win big in the last few years of their long life. Were they idiots for not quitting?

esrauch• 9 years ago

In some cases, definitely. Some people play the lottery their entire lives and win in the last few years of their long lives. They were still wrong for not quitting, even though they happened to get their pay out.

frobozz• 9 years ago

Those people didn't "never win" did they?

coldtea4• 9 years ago

Depends on the opportunity cost.

If they could have much better results putting that energy to another use, then, yes, simplistically we can say that they are idiots.

jondubois• 9 years ago

Totally worth it. They'll be able to afford that gold-plated coffin they always wanted.

duncan_bayne• 9 years ago

Quitters never win and winners never quit, but those who never win and never quit are idiots.

That is pretty much the definition of survivorship bias, in that you never know which of those groups you fit into in advance (or possibly ever).

diminish• 9 years ago

As someone once wrote: Most successful startup advice is tautology or survivorship bias.

zaat• 9 years ago

fitted nicely with business and marketing considerations: tax breaks and diary connotations.

They didn't know about the tax breaks at the time.

bmmayer1• 9 years ago

A decade of experience kicked in and delivered a great idea.

This reminds me of that quote from Monty Hall about it taking twenty years to become an overnight success. Great read.

ams6110• 9 years ago

My cousin convinced his wife that once you open a bottle of Baileys you have to drink it all or the cream will spoil.

smcl• 9 years ago

Hah, I wonder how many times that's been pulled off. It reminded me of something in Arrested Development:

    Michael: And you finished off the whole bottle?

    Lindsay Funke: I had to, it's vodka. It goes bad once it's opened.

    Michael: I think that's another of mom's fibs, like "I'll sacrifice anything for my children".

teh_klev• 9 years ago

Kinda reminds me of a line from Dogtooth:

"If you don't drink your orange juice while it's fresh, it's no use."

justifier• 9 years ago

That one rings true: https://www.homesciencetools.com/vitamin-c-test-experiment-k...

Though the time frame is probably greater than casually sipping

rrauenza• 9 years ago

Oh it goes bad. Even closed. Found an old bottle (unopened if I recall) and poured out clumps of clotted cream...

morsch• 9 years ago

It's supposed to last at least 2 years, regardless of whether it's opened.

https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/9420/why-doesnt-...

nkrisc• 9 years ago

We once found a bottle of Baileys in my grandmother's basement. It was probably 20 years old and had completely solidified into Baileys Irish Cheese.

eapen• 9 years ago

This was the first alcohol that my mom let me have and I still cherish it and often have stock at home — although now I have the Costco version.

kagamine• 9 years ago

IN this podcast there is an interview with one of the creators from the ad agency. It's short and worthwhile.

http://www.modernmann.co.uk/new/2017/2/28/43-the-impossible-...

bambax• 9 years ago

He sipped at the muddy brown liquid with absolutely no enthusiasm. And then, it is said, he pronounced the immortal words “That shit will never sell!” Nevertheless, he launched it into the US later that year...

Love this. I too find Baileys disgusting, and in that position I would probably would never have launched it. What a big mistake that would have been!

Would be interesting to know more about this particular guy: did he come to like it eventually, or did he listen to somebody else, or did sales numbers in other parts of the world change his mind?

sevensor• 9 years ago

I too find Baileys disgusting

I clicked the link hoping for an apology for having invented Bailey's. At least now I have an explanation.

zimpenfish• 9 years ago

If you mix it with, e.g., toffee Frijj[1], then you can't taste the Baileys at all. But you will wake up 36 hours later wondering what happened to your weekend and the rest of the Baileys.

[1] Thick milkshake kind of stuff in the UK

nartz• 9 years ago

I would be curious to know when "Bailey's + Coffee" became a thing (i.e. drinking it warm versus cold)

alexasmyths• 9 years ago

Because they are a perfect combination.

Coffee usually needs sweetener + cream. The thick cream + sweetener + special taste + alcohol of Baileys make it a perfect for coffee.

It's the easiest, dumbest, best drink possible in a Canadian winter.

feintruled• 9 years ago

Plus Irish Coffee (just whiskey) has been a thing since forever too.

aedron• 9 years ago

Does the alcohol evaporate?

__s• 9 years ago

Beats Tim's any day

mks2• 9 years ago

It intrigues me that the experts and their market research told them it will fail. Did they just do a lousy research or was the idea too innovative? How is it possible to distinguish between those cases (bad research vs no one will buy it vs innovative idea people don't understand yet)?

patrickk2• 9 years ago

He also mentions that it took several years to really take off. If it was a product launched today, it would probably be killed if it took 3+ years to take off. Look at Hollywood movies judged by their opening weekend or the career of Alex Ferguson, who almost got fired early in his tenure at Manchester United, then went on to become one of the greatest managers in any sport, ever.

mks2• 9 years ago

Maybe the times are different now than in the past or the food industry works on different timescales before they kill off something. Possibly because the investment is much bigger than software - they mention building a whole new factory for an untested product - that made me shiver. I might be just spoilt by ease of pivoting in software, but what led them to believing into the new drink - were they acting just on a hunch and feeling it tasted good?

lawlessone• 9 years ago

Hmmm im not used to seeing articles this interesting in the Irish Times, good read.

LeifCarrotson• 9 years ago

We needed what they called an “Anglo-Irish” name. We were sure that a family name might be better than a “thing” or a place name. That was the popular convention of the business in those days. After all, many drinks were named after the people who made them.
We were still struggling to find a name for our revolutionary new drink and there it was; above the door. Baileys. Was it really right in front of my face? It was certainly Anglo-Irish and in a flurry of post-rationalisation I managed to dredge up from my memory a dairy of that name in the Port Elizabeth of my youth in South Africa. This gave it a kind of relevance in my head.
Another “Baileys moment” was the discovery of an attractive, traditional restaurant in Dublin called The Bailey. I could imagine our drink being enjoyed there a long time ago. It gave a gentle nudge of support to our off-the-wall idea.
The headline mentioned R&A, golf’s governing body, and I instantly blurted “How about two initials? How do you like the sound of R&A Bailey? ... Yet as I thought about it after our conversation, a fantasy began to form in my mind. I could see them: R & A Bailey were two brothers, one a distiller and the other a dairy farmer. They had disliked each other for decades. Their father looked to bring them together...

He begins with "many drinks were named after the people who made them", and proceeds to follow up with works of complete fiction when creating the Baileys brand. Perhaps I'm a bit too left-brained to understand this creative work, but how does imagining something that didn't happen lend a gentle nudge of support to an idea?

In 1973, I invented Baileys

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