Demonstration of Communication using Neutrinos (2012)

https://arxiv.org/abs/1203.2847

by lainon • 9 years ago

65 23 9 years ago

arxiv.org

tanto• 9 years ago

What if the whole universe is full of life using Neutrino's for communiction and we just don't get it.

hololight• 9 years ago

That was my first thought as well

ianai• 9 years ago

You have to wonder how they scale it.

kowdermeister• 9 years ago

I'd recommend Stanislav Lem's His master's voice :)

tyingq• 9 years ago

"0.1 bits/sec with a bit error rate of 1% over a distance of 1.035 km, including 240 m of earth."

I'm not sure that's much better than ULF, with similar issues on the size/cost of the transmitter.

They do mention interstellar communication though.

aomix• 9 years ago

From discussions about this it seems like the consensus is that the nature of neutrinos would kill any attempt to make this method of communication scale. But boy it would cool to have straight line communication between any two points on earth no infrastructure required.

afarrell• 9 years ago

no infrastructure required

O(1) infrastructure required

czbond• 9 years ago

Maybe aomix meant 0! ;)

mrfusion2• 9 years ago

What breakthroughs would be required to make this feasible for something the size of a flip phone?

m1el2• 9 years ago

Not doable. A neutrino detector, including radiation shielding, cannot be the size of a flip phone.

mrfusion2• 9 years ago

I’m thinking we’d need new physics discoveries. Maybe elements from the island of stability might help. Or something with superconductors. You never know.

joko145• 9 years ago

Would this help?

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/milk-jug-sized-detect...

Rzor• 9 years ago

What if the phones connect to the neutrino detector central server? The only latency would be getting to the server...

chris_va2• 9 years ago

One bit is sufficient if you are just trying to arbitrage markets. For a couple billion, an NYC to Tokyo neutrino shortcut wouldn't be a bad investment.

thisisdave• 9 years ago

Any individual bit could be noise, so it might take 2-3 bits to transmit something unambiguous (via an error-correcting code or similar).

If so, I think the speed advantage disappears.

chris_va2• 9 years ago

Detecting one pulse above background noise is not terrible, according to the paper. However, the way the paper sets up their communications channel is kind of silly, since they are pulse rate limited.

If you wanted to transmit a lot of information with one pulse, you'd use time domain slicing and synchronized atomic clocks.

Regardless, you don't need particularly high signal fidelity in order to arbitrage the market, just better than 50/50. The ~25ms they can cut off of the transmission latency is an eternity in market time.

frumiousirc• 9 years ago

There is latency involved in both production and detection to contend with.

NYC to Tokyo would require an unprecedented beamline angled deep down into the earth as well as a much more powerful proton driver to produce enough neutrinos to compensate for the 1/r^2 loss of flux.

And, then there is the neutrino oscillation resonance due to the high matter density as the neutrinos pass near the Earth's core just to mix things up.

The price tag for DUNE is a couple billion USD for a relatively "short" baseline of 1300 km and 40kton far detector.

All that said, if some fat cat trader wants to fund it, I'll help build it.

Demonstration of Communication using Neutrinos (2012)

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