Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08qy1sl

by tim_sw • 9 years ago

136 42 9 years ago

bbc.co.uk

sambeau• 9 years ago

I can highly recommend this. For us Brits this is a national institution and appearing on it is considered a badge of honour similar to a minor peerage. We listen to it live on a Sunday morning.

If you enjoy the format there is a large archive of these with many of the most influential people of the 20th century. However the modern (Kirsty Young) ones are by far the most insightful due to her masterful, understated interviewing.

I offer these as a taster to non-Brits who would like to hear more:

Dustin Hoffman:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01p314n

Tom Hanks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b079m78n

Bruce Springsteen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0855znp

Bill Gates:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06z1zdt

atmosx4• 9 years ago

Thanks for this! This is an amazing series!!! I'll probably listen everything in time!

Another amazing podcast series from BBC is "a brief history of mathematics": http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00srz5b/episodes/downloads

pjc50• 9 years ago

The programme has been running since 1942, so "everything" is rather a lot :)

There are a few more programmes of similar longevity, one that people may like is Alistair Cooke's "Letter from America" http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00f6hbp from 24 March 1946 to 20 February 2004

oretoz• 9 years ago

"In our times" is great too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/37pR8YxRMhVwwZvX93r...

nopinsight6• 9 years ago

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page:

"Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’

AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11."

It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.

Radim3• 9 years ago

I think I understand your sentiment, but I'd object to the phrasing of "trivial pursuits".

If history teaches us anything, it's that humanity advances by people following their "trivial interests", rather than being herded onto the "major problems of our complex world".

What is or isn't trivial vs important is only obvious in hindsight, unfortunately. That moment might still happen for advertising and the art of capturing the human attention (or whatever you meant by this turn of phrase).

taneq2• 9 years ago

What is or isn't trivial vs important is only obvious in hindsight, unfortunately.

Amongst things of similar nature, sure, but surely you're not arguing that being very good at chess is just as likely advance humanity in some important way as directly tackling current existential dangers?

nopinsight6• 9 years ago

In principle we do not know the long-term impact in advance, but we can often make a probabilistic estimate. Choosing career as an AI researcher vs a Go player, for example.

* Note: If you want to make an impact, whichever your career inclination is, this website provides some great guides: https://80000hours.org/

I think trying to capture more of the world's resources for Google, Facebook, etc. do have a large impact in aggregation, so it's not a trivial pursuit. DeepMind itself and many other techs to come are being funded by these companies.

Personal impact may not be extremely large since there are many other brilliant people working on the same thing but some with a leading role could make a contribution there. (For example if you work for Google, which I believe is a major force for long-term innovation.)

What I had in mind was people who spend careers on games, puzzles, or gambling. I once watched a Ke Jie interview after his loss to AlphaGo and could tell that he is brilliant and would likely be successful in other careers that require sharp thinking.

Some like Christopher Lagan needed to live a double life and is still unlikely to make any real impact on the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan

imranq3• 9 years ago

I mean you can argue that as nice as AlphaGo is, it has not accomplished any thing real outside of being better at some games.

robertk• 9 years ago

Tick tock, my dear friend, the fruits of a mathematical harvest take long to grow; but the rewarding bounties may be enough to feed the walking earth. Or at least the probability of that is higher than Magnus Carlsen providing gain to human welfare of equal measure. ;-)

nopinsight6• 9 years ago

For a start:

DeepMind AI Reduces Google Data Centre Cooling Bill by 40%

https://deepmind.com/blog/deepmind-ai-reduces-google-data-ce...

psyc• 9 years ago

I encounter comments every day on HN and Reddit, from people with no vision who seem to believe the status quo defines the limit of technology.

MrQuincle• 9 years ago

I'm not that brilliant, but I gave up on chess myself at around 18 when I crossed the threshold of playing blind and not being able to fall asleep at night because I was replaying games in my head. I think there are plenty of indicators that a more brilliant mind would take as clues of navigating to some local intellectual optimum. :-)

Only now I'm twice that age I follow a bit of the tournaments again. Watching a banter chess episode by Jan Gustafsson is a nice way to end the day so now and then.

I think the best we can do for brilliant minds is "set them" on a path of applied math (like working on AI). I'll assume that a brilliant mind is able to pick problems that it considers solvable. Even a brilliant mind trying to solve Ramsey number R(6,6) will probably solve a lot of subproblems on the way.

atmosx4• 9 years ago

So, all of you AI guys, started from chess? I see a pattern emerging...

a_lieb• 9 years ago

Is there anything you can recall doing that would encourage or discourage chess stuff from popping into your head like that? Do you think it came out of intentionally replaying games on your head and then became more automatic? Or did it just randomly start to happen on its own?

This kind of automatic mental practice seems like an awesome skill to develop for any field of study. It's a way to practice and learn without using up any willpower.

I play guitar and sometimes I do find myself doing solfege exercises and visualizing fretboard patterns when I'm falling asleep/sitting in traffic/whatever. I'd love to be able to do that more.

asdfologist• 9 years ago

Why is chess any more of a trivial pursuit than, say, art or music? Did Mozart or Michelangelo waste their whole lives for nothing?

nopinsight6• 9 years ago

Mozart and Michelangelo were major innovators in their fields and influenced an enormous number of artists in subsequent ages. Their works were also epitomes of human excellence, something we all can appreciate and be proud of as a species.

If you are likely to make great innovations in chess moves or patterns that will influence a large number of people in subsequent generations, you may have an impact. Given the dominance of computer chess and the small proportion of the world who appreciate advanced chess, your impact will still very likely be smaller than those of giants in art or music.

Fields matter:

Newton and Einstein still changed the world much more than Mozart and Michelangelo did.

kylebgorman• 9 years ago

Mechanical reproduction is a force multiplier allowing your art to touch millions or billions. (Mozart & Michelangelo didn't know this was coming, but I'm a consequentialist, so I give them credit for it.)

Far smaller is the audience for play-by-plays of competitive chess. I'd guess because the experience is less visceral? I've read a beginner-intermediate books with this kind of play-by-play and found it interesting enough, but I'd take my record collection over those books any day.

muse9002• 9 years ago

'It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.'

How can you objectify the term 'wasting' (their lives)?

I mean to you the only people that their lives are worth something are scientists?

If you aren't a scientist you have wasted your life?

I think that people that enjoy trivial persuit or chess or whatever it is, haven't wasted anything by doing what they love.

If the only thing you see in life is 'the evolution of science' then I feel sorry for you. There are far better things in life than that. But again each to their own goal, you might enjoy being a scientist and discovering something new, other people might just enjoy living by the beach and have nothing to do with tech. Noone is wasting his/her life.

Also another point, people that can't AI or be good at maths etc doesn't mean they can't have a great mind!

partisan2• 9 years ago

The life of that Shepherd doesn't sound trivial at all. And neither does pursuing a life of chess mastery unless that pursuit doesn't bring one personal growth and satisfaction.

nopinsight6• 9 years ago

I did not say wasting their lives. I said their brilliant minds are wasted (from doing something that could be both more fulfilling and impactful).

Personal mastery is good and enjoyable for the person. What if the person can achieve that as well as having a positive impact on others?

I believe humanities, arts, and philosophy have a great deal to offer to the world.

(Tangential: When you say you are sorry for your viewpoint/life/.., as you did twice in this thread, are you being condescending while assuming a lot on the people you talk to?)

paulsutter• 9 years ago

You're either making the future happen or you aren't. And Demis is definitely making the future happen.

There's nothing wrong with ordinary lives like yours or mine, but let's give credit where credit is due.

atmosx4• 9 years ago

It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.

We humans, have this amazing ability to give or take away meaning and essence to whatever we do.

So for another brilliant or less brilliant mind, becoming a doctor, veterinarian, molecular biologists, etc. Means so much more than reaching the limits of AI.

For a guy who's in love with a girl, nothing has meaning except from the moments she's walking in the room... etc. etc. etc.

coldtea2• 9 years ago

So for another brilliant or less brilliant mind, becoming a doctor, veterinarian, molecular biologists, etc. Means so much more than reaching the limits of AI.

And yet, all of those fields will benefit from advancements in AI -- whereas someone being great in chess wont have any impact at all for anything else.

What you said is kinda of true, but in a trivial way. Sure, for the guy who's just fallen in love other things aside from his love interest might not mean anything etc.

But that doesn't give any insight as to whether anything is more important than something else.

Might as well have answered "anything goes", which while true regarding available choices someone has if nothing else is considered to matter, it's not true when things are considered in some grander context and towards an end goal.

E.g. if the question "how I can help more people", or "how I can make more money", etc is also in place, chess loses quite fast compared to some scientific pursuit.

SBCRec• 9 years ago

Thanks for linking this. Has given me inspiration to finish off some of my projects. It is interesting he comes from a game design background.

ngcc_hk• 9 years ago

Actually Mozart know about copying as he do scores. And publishing is one of those public goods thing that is key to most of the things we treAsured and talked about here.

E=mc2 is a fish, it cannot be consumed and used by you only.

epberry• 9 years ago

Wow I had never heard this program and the interviewer did a fantastic job. Demis's intellect really shows through. It's really clear how hard he works and how driven he is. This has given me some inspiration on what otherwise might a lazy Saturday.

pjs_• 9 years ago

KLF - yes mate :)

Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

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