I'm in dire need of assistance.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12988

by kyro • 19 years ago

6 25 19 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

kyro4• 19 years ago

My problem: I haven't been able to find ANY programmers. I've posted fliers, posted on craigslist, talked to professors, etc. looking for skilled programmers to help me get this startup in development, but I haven't received a single response.

I grow exponentially frustrated day after day and feel like I have exercised all my options. If any of you have any suggestions on how you or your team found a coder, it'd be greatly appreciated.

For anyone who happens to have coincidentally come across this and is a coder, I am based in Orange County / San Diego , CA. Further information about product details, etc. can be discussed upon further contact.

If interested, email me at: kbeshay@gmail.com

bootload2• 19 years ago

'... Further information about product details, etc. can be discussed upon further contact. ...'

Do you have a demo? a blog? or something you can show? Build, talk create an audience and the long tail of the Internet will work for you. [0]

Not having something, anything to show is counter to what's really going on at the moment in the web where there is an avalanche of interesting things going on. You have to market yourself [0], no not market, make a statement. Here are the words I use to motivate myself here ...

'... Momentum builds on itself -- just start. Do whatever you can. Draw a user interface. Write a spec. Make something, anything, that people can see and touch and try. A prototype is worth ten thousand words. ...' [1]

More releases (code, blogs, demos), less searching. This is not a criticism, just an observation. Remember we are in a boom so lots of really interesting things are happening. You have to compete and show your stuff by releasing and listening to your audience.

Reference

[0] It also tells you if are building crap that nobody wants to read, run or download.

[1] Marc Hedland, 'Entrepreneurial Proverbs, Starting'

http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial_proverbs.html

kyro4• 19 years ago

Yeah, see, the issue is, I am trying to find coders so that I can make my idea tangible. It is only idea as of now, and I'm looking for skilled people to make this idea a reality, such as a demo.

However, I am hesitant to just explain my idea and post it throughout the internet in hopes of attracting people for fear that someone can just run with the idea on their own. I mean, I am just the idea guy with creativity, they're the coder, they can live without me, but I can't live without them.

How do you suggest I lure coders without exposing too much about the site's idea?

How do I convey that good pay will probably not be the case, rather that he/she will be a partner in the startup, without turning away possible applicants?

nostrademons4• 19 years ago

Learn to program. ;-)

Seriously, there are a bunch of reasons why coders turn down a startup:

1.) Not enough compensation. If you're paying them cash, you have to pay them market rates. For a bright but junior programmer, that's minimum $55-60K/year. salary in most of the tech hotspots. For someone experienced, figure at least $100k/year. If you're looking for hourly contractors, expect to pay at least $75/hour for anyone decent. If you give them equity - well, I personally would not join a startup for less than 20% equity, and I suspect many other technical founders have similar minimums. Actually, the only reason my current startup got away with so little (I'm getting 25%) is because it has 5 founders, and nobody else has more than 25%.

2.) Boring idea. Good programmers like to work on interesting problems. I joined my startup because it was in a problem domain that I waste a lot of time in anyways, I knew the area, and it'd let me try some cool stuff that I didn't know if I could do, but it'd be fun as hell to try.

3.) They don't trust you. Techies have a natural aversion to business-type people. Be straight with them, always. The second they think you're trying to bullshit them, they'll walk away.

4.) They don't think you add much value. Ultimately, it'll be the techie building the product. They need a reason why working with you beats building the product on your own. Usually, your best bet is to have a large personal network, or good people skills, or the ability to sell something. I don't think it's necessarily true that techies can't be good with people, but in my experience, I can't code and be good with people at the same time, so have a cofounder with people skills has been a big win for me.

Remember, if you're founding a technical startup, you want the best coder you can find. He'll usually be young, because good experienced coders typically have families and will not work for stock, and you generally can't afford the $150K/year that they'll cost you. Don't try to skimp and get cheaper labor - lots of companies tried that in the dot-com bomb (notably Value America), and they almost universally went out of business. Average coders cannot hit the high notes; you need to hit the high notes as a startup, because all of the middle ground is taken.

In my case, I met my cofounder at Homecoming. We'd lived across the hall from me sophomore year, so I went over to talk to him and see what he was doing. Turned out he was working on a startup in a field I was interested in. He introduced me to the other cofounders afterwards (2 of which I already knew from college). I didn't actually join until several months later, when their initial choice for a technical founder quit, but he kept my name in mind.

danw4• 19 years ago

I bet it's a social network ;)

Luring coders is hard, the best way to do it is to be a coder yourself and put cool stuff out there for other to see. If you cant code, now would be a good time to learn. Not only can you start getting stuff done but when you do recruit coders you'll be able to communicate and understand each other better.

timg• 19 years ago

To be fair, if it wasn't social then it would hardly need to be on the net in the first place.

Eg:

Complex circuit analysis app - no, not on the net.

Tool that helps people communicate and share knowledge - yes, on the net.

nostrademons4• 19 years ago

Yah think? http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=11676

jaggederest2• 19 years ago

Dropped you an email, not too far away. It all depends on what kind of impression you make on people, and what kind of idea it is.

tocomment• 19 years ago

Use rent a coder. I've had good luck with them.

rms• 19 years ago

Also, take a look at www.odesk.com.

zaidf2• 19 years ago

I've used rentacoder and almost every other online outsourcing company as a coder as well as an employer for over five years. My personal experience has been that it if you don't know your way around technically, there is good chances you will be taken rounds by most coders--or have a torturous time explaining your needs to the coder.

I continue to use rentacoder etc. extensively. Yet best way I can put it is that most coders on such sites cannot be replaced with technical knowledge on your end. The good coders are great for getting x, y, z coded according to detailed specs but very hard in planning those x, y, z.

jaggederest2• 19 years ago

Planning is 80% of the hard part in programming.

danw4• 19 years ago

I quite like http://www.spock.com/jobs as an example of an ad for coders. It says what they're making, why you should join them and the "Work with Jay" section shows you what they're like to work with.

mukund2• 19 years ago

i had applied there long back, they shooed me away :D May be it was my fault as i got interviewed on yahoo messenger with some puzzles

I'm in dire need of assistance.

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