Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/oct/11/electric-car-charging-point-new-home-europe-renault

by Gravityloss • 10 years ago

38 27 10 years ago

tf2manu994• 10 years ago

While this is a hell of a lot better than the current system of non-electric, I feel that people owning their own car won't be a thing after cars are self driving.

After they are, I think people will just call for a car and it would drive to you and pick you up. Obviously this won't work for rural and off road areas, though.

ewr244• 10 years ago

Does anyone have link to original sources?

Most houses in EU already have "charging point", it is called electric plug. 25A/380V plugs are pretty common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_and_multiphase_powe...

But electric grids in western countries (Germany, UK) are absolutely not ready for such thing. German power grid would collapse if Czechia and Poland started enforcing their safety regulations.

This regulation would also make it impossible to build off-grid house powered by solar.

DanBC2• 10 years ago

25A/380V plugs are pretty common

Not in homes.

ewr244• 10 years ago

My experience is from post communist countryside. Everyone has some machinery to cut wood, mix concrete, welding...

skrause• 10 years ago

At least in Germany every single house or apartment has an electric connection with a power output of at least 120A/380V (you're always connected to all 3 phases). Hooking up an 25A/380V plug shouldn't be a big deal.

_ph_2• 10 years ago

What makes you think the German grid would not be up to charging electrical cars? In most places it is in an excellent state and as electrical consumption overall is sinking (getting rid of incandescent bulbs and wasteful electric devices helped there). On average, an electrical car would need about 10kWh/day to recharge, based on the average mileage. This does not put high loads on the electrical networks, especially as most cars would recharge over night, where the networks are mostly idle.

ewr244• 10 years ago

My informations from Germany are 6 years, but it probably still applies:

- electricity is produced by wind farms in north, and transfered to industrial south. German grid does not have enough capacity and has to transfer through Czech grid. That is often pushing it to edge of safety limit. Safety breakers are not possible for political reasons (Poland installed something like that).

- Building new high-voltage power line is almost impossible

- Atomic plants are being decommissioned. There might be a problem to satisfy existing demand.

- Germany is planning to use Russian gas to make power in future (baltic pipe...). But Russia stated they might not have enough gas in 30 years to supply their own internal demand, and will stop exporting.

- More recently there is a huge political instability associated with Russian gas.

- Poland (or Estonia?) buys liquid gas from Katar and transports it on tankers. But that is very expensive

- Building new power plants in Germany is very problematic.

dattaway• 10 years ago

Not ready? Most electric clothes dryers, heaters, and air conditioners already use 4500 watts each. I'm sure the grid may notice an increase, the utilities will charge for the extra consumption, and upgrade accordingly. The common 200 ampere service in homes should handle another 30 amps...

icebraining• 10 years ago

A 4500W clothes dryer or heater seems like a stretch, and besides, most people don't run those with a 100% duty cycle for hours. Saying that "utilities will upgrade accordingly" hides a lot of complexity under a simple statement.

walshemj• 10 years ago

Yes but realistically European charging stations would be a separate 415v - as this allows for much faster charging.

tinita• 10 years ago

Thoughts: 1. Where will the energy come from? 2. While electric cars will make the air in cities better, they won't reduce the needed space (for driving AND parking), and they won't make life more secure for pedestrians and cyclists. 3. In our courtyard, I usually don't find a place to lock my bicycle because they removed some of the bicycle stands in favor of creating some private terraces - this should be forbidden 4. Please concentrate on electric cars for car sharing

makomk• 10 years ago

Hmmm. It's not like installing the charging points later is terribly difficult or expensive compared to the cost of the cars themselves, so long as there's a suitable garage or parking space. Are they outlawing new homes and home refurbishments without garages or similar suitable for electric cars? That'd be quite some subsidy for the car industry.

stuaxo• 10 years ago

In towns and cities most people have to park on the street. (At least in the UK).

brudgers3• 10 years ago

Any jurisdiction that requires off street parking to be associated with buildings (which is nearly universal in the US) could be said to be similarly subsidizing the auto industry.

To me, the reason to consider requiring a car charging station is not really related to cars but to the history of after the fact electrical installations which to be safe must be done right and doing it right takes time (to hire qualified installers) and money (to hire said installers and purchase electrical gear) and that human nature is to avoid those things and install systems that trade those costs for safety (fire and shock).

I look at it as parallel to requiring circuit breakers rather than fuses in new residential construction and renovation. Fuses are really safe, safer than circuit breakers in theory. In practice people substitute non-fusable objects for fuses for convenience and cost savings. The work until they don't.

dsfyu404ed• 10 years ago

To me, the reason to consider requiring a car charging station is not really related to cars but to the history of after the fact electrical installations which to be safe must be done right and doing it right takes time (to hire qualified installers) and money (to hire said installers and purchase electrical gear) and that human nature is to avoid those things and install systems that trade those costs for safety (fire and shock).
I look at it as parallel to requiring circuit breakers rather than fuses in new residential construction and renovation. Fuses are really safe, safer than circuit breakers in theory. In practice people substitute non-fusable objects for fuses for convenience and cost savings. The work until they don't.

I agree here. That said, in the US most homeowner electrical installations are done 90% to code and the stuff people skip is stuff like supporting wires individually and circuit planning often sucks.

In applications where you really care about not starting electrical fires there's usually a combination breaker and fuse where the breaker setting is conservative and the fuse is sized to burn up just before the wire does.

cesarb• 10 years ago

I look at it as parallel to requiring circuit breakers rather than fuses in new residential construction and renovation.

Since it's a charging point, wouldn't it be more similar to "each bedroom should have at least N power sockets per square meter"? I believe a rule like that already exists, requiring something like "at least N electric vehicle charging sockets per square meter of garage" sounds like a natural extension of it.

That said, I'd like to read that draft directive, and see what it actually says.

IshKebab• 10 years ago

It's difficult if you don't own the house.

marklyon• 10 years ago

Perhaps future regulations will require a dishwasher and a laundry machine in all new or renovated homes?

grantlmiller• 10 years ago

This seems shortsighted. We're on the verge of changing the car ownership model with driverless cars & legislators are stuck creating laws that will create an unnecessary burden in 5-8 years (yet they'll likely stay on the books for decades). Ultimately it is central planning at its worst. A great example of why decisions should be driven by the market, not "I know what's best for everyone" politicians.

desas• 10 years ago

Driverless cars to become standard in 5-8 years? I'd bet against that, never mind the car ownership model.

Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

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