Loneliness can be depressing, but it may have helped humans survive

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/loneliness-can-be-depressing-but-it-may-have-helped-humans-survive/2016/09/02/c01a15f4-38a0-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html

by wallflower • 10 years ago

138 45 10 years ago

washingtonpost.com

anexprogrammer• 10 years ago

"3 points by wallflower 1 hour ago "

Nothing against the article, but how is this #11 on the frontpage? Did HN make ranking easier recently?

sctb• 10 years ago

Ranking is relative, so on less busy days (such as today's holiday in the US and Canada) stories with fewer points can be ranked higher than usual. You can always email questions like this to hn@ycombinator.com to avoid cluttering the discussion threads.

sundarurfriend• 10 years ago

What's the holiday in US and Canada today? It is (was) a holiday in many places of India too, due to a Hindu festival called Vinayaka Chaturthi.

mkagenius• 10 years ago

to avoid cluttering the discussion threads.

this part was not that necessary

jbpetersen• 10 years ago

Better yet: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

PieterH11• 10 years ago

As if our brains magically emerged from a billion years of evolution with complex mechanisms that did not help us survive... :)

I tried (like a good nerd) to reverse engineer all our emotions in my book "The Psychopath Code." Loneliness fell into my group of "Tribal Emotions" (thus evolved to help us form extended families), and here is how I defined it:

"Loneliness - the emotion of being disconnected. You feel physical pain in your intestines and chest when you see others enjoying themselves. You sleep lightly and wake often. Your immune system starts to slow and you start to get sick. Your metabolism slows down, yet you eat more often than usual. Your circulation slows, and you feel cold."

http://content.psychopathcode.com/chapter6.html

XVII• 10 years ago

very interesting stuff you have written there, going to start reading it now :)

EGreg• 10 years ago

Indeed, a very interesting read! Can you list references or is this all original research?

About the rule breakers and psychopaths - I think most people actually switch to reward/punishment reasoning for rule following when empathy and social feedback is lacking. For example, if you know that no one will get hurt (eg running a red light with no cars around) the reasoning switches primarily to risk/reward (are there cameras or cops?) and habits (mental shortcuts and pathways that have been reinforced).

Most of our decisions are made out of habits trained on common situations, and only when the underlying assumptions are violated do we start re-evaluating the stories and heuristics we tell ourselves for our actions.

PieterH11• 10 years ago

I'm sorry to say it's mostly original research, though I did do a lot of research into the studies people have done on the various emotions and particularly their physical manifestations. I did not keep references because I was lazy and generally don't do that (this is not academic work and I absolutely want to keep it readable for non-academics).

Regarding rules, I suspect we apply different sets of rules in different situations. Running a red light breaks "would the cops catch me?" yet does not break "would my friends be angry with me?"

I've not looked into habits much. They are obviously powerful shortcuts that save on cognitive workload.

Aenima• 10 years ago

I have spent a good part of my morning reading some of your material. Particularly some of your blog articles on hintjens.com. I am very glad I was able to find your content. It is thought provoking to say the least. I hope I will be able to find more content from you in the future. Good luck and thank you.

keyboardhitter• 10 years ago

Just began reading and got sucked in for two hours - great work here, Pieter.

PieterH11• 10 years ago

Yeah, sorry about the sucking in effect... :-) Sometimes I go back and start reading my stuff and get lost for hours again.

mrlatinos• 10 years ago

Thanks for sharing!

maga2• 10 years ago

Loneliness - the emotion of being disconnected. You feel physical pain in your intestines and chest when you see others enjoying themselves. You sleep lightly and wake often. Your immune system starts to slow and you start to get sick. Your metabolism slows down, yet you eat more often than usual. Your circulation slows, and you feel cold.

Is it some sort of a hyperbole or I really have to hate people and be physically sick to qualify as a lonely person according to psychiatrists?

sridca2• 10 years ago

It is well known that stress (which doesn't necessitate hating people; in fact, merely feeling lonely will do) weakens immune system.

http://www.apa.org/research/action/immune.aspx

PieterH11• 10 years ago

That text does not mention hate, and the physical pain I'm referring to is mostly low level discomfort. It can still drive some people to extreme behaviour.

animal531• 10 years ago

Agreed, the secondary characteristics feel somewhat circumstantial to me.

I'm lonely, but sleep a solid 8 hours (except if bothered by other factors such as mismanagement of heat etc which will wake me up). I don't get sick, eat a normal amount and don't feel colder than usual.

FrozenVoid• 10 years ago

It is hyperbole, average people can cope with being disconnected from society. Some people who are lonely and develop these symptoms are better explained as reaction from DPD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_personality_disorder In evolutionary terms, a lone hunter/traveler that becomes a shriveling ball of tears when completely alone doesn't pass the survival threshold: people are not evolved to die from being alone. Besides in the modern world, you're not "really alone" unless you live off-grid in some remote wilderness with no internet/phone/radio. Disconnecting from society is far harder than what people think of it(not using mobile devices 24/7 on your person is not "disconnection")

throwanem2• 10 years ago

the risk of dying over a two-decade period was 50 percent higher for lonely me

Cri de coeur or simple typo? Inquiring minds want to know!

PieterH11• 10 years ago

It's a well known problem with some journalists, they simply can't finish their

throwanem2• 10 years ago

You mean they can't finish their wo

narrator2• 10 years ago

Evolutionary Psychology is like Leibnitizian Optimisim [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds] where God is replaced by evolution. It does nothing to aid in our understanding except to reassure us that everything that is is as it should be. It's essentially an ideology of apathy.

Leibnitz's Argument goes like so:

1. God [Evolution] has the idea of infinitely many universes.
2. Only one of these universes can actually exist.
3. God[Evolution]'s choices are subject to the principle of sufficient reason, that is, God[Evolution] has reason to choose one thing or another.
4. God[Evolution] is good.
5. Therefore, the universe that God[Evolution] chose to exist is the best of all possible worlds.[1]

FYI, Voltaire made a nice parody of this ideology in his book Candide.

PieterH11• 10 years ago

There is a profound difference between magical thinking and science. Once you build scientific frameworks (such as EP is part of), you can move much faster in interesting and useful directions that may seem unrelated and yet all connect together.

For example I've used a lot of psychology (based on EP, not Freud) in constructing communities that build open source software.

And we are using this thing called the "Internet" that lets total strangers converse, at no cost. And largely built on free and open source. Amazing, huh?

If you believe that science does "nothing to aid in our understanding," and yet you are quick to profit from the fruits of the rational world that science built, that would make you rather a hypocrite.

rdtsc2• 10 years ago

I've used a lot of psychology (based on EP, not Freud) in constructing communities that build open source software.

Very interesting. If it is not a secret, can you share a list of guidelines or tips?

Avshalom• 10 years ago

narrator is implying that in fact no EP is part of magical thinking, not science. A view that any quick googling will back up as being not terribly controversial actually.

sixo• 10 years ago

It might be an ideology of apathy if, once finding a plausible evolutionary cause for psychological phenomenon, you cease the investigation. Which you shouldn't. Shutting down a line of inquiry with criticism like this does nothing to aid our understanding either - consider the idea on its merits, as (if you will..) a pure function of its premises.

GavinMcG• 10 years ago

Previous related article and discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12338817

rosstex• 10 years ago

So how do we reconcile them?

Loneliness can be depressing, but it may have helped humans survive

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