School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+boingboing/iBag+(Boing+Boing)

by kf • 16 years ago

275 155 16 years ago

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cgranade12• 16 years ago

It would be particularly sick if the legal case for this came down to deciding whether any adults had their privacy violated. In general, US courts have not been to fond of protecting the rights of children (which makes the children arrested for child porn of themselves trend still more poignant), and so I can easily see the case coming down to deciding if adults were harmed, effectively setting a precedent that it's OK to spy on kids.

mml• 16 years ago

you bet your ass it's ok to spy on kids; I made em, i can spy on em (sorry kiddos). the school district on the other hand, is not allowed to venture onto my lawn, much less into my house.

ugh4• 16 years ago

Why would you think you should have unlimited rights to violate their privacy? Parents already don't have an unlimited right to limit their freedom of movement (e.g. locking them up in their room indefinitly) or the right to use any kind of violence against them. (At least that's the case here in Germany, but I would guess that the US are similar.)

The rights of parents are already limited by the rights of their children, I don't see how you can then jump from "I made em" right to "i can spy on em". We also don't jump from "I made em" right to "i can beat em up" or "i can lock em up forever".

I would agree that some spying should be allowed, but not unlimited (similar to freedom of movement). Putting a camera in the bathroom would definitly not be ok. I would also argue that the rights to privacy increase with age. Secret surveillance might be ok for infants (e.g. baby monitor) but most certainly not for seventeen year old teenagers.

rdtsc2• 16 years ago

Unless the courts take the approach that the school is 'in loco parentis' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis), that is they have similar rights to when the kids are under their supervision.

They can claim that since laptops are not tracked via GPS so it is hard to know where the kids are (at home or at school). So they can just brush this off as an 'oops' or demand that all laptops have tracking chips in them. Or they can always blame the sysadmin and just say "we told him to spy only when kids are at school, but he goofed off, so we'll just fire him" basically scapegoating one person.

Now I am not defending them, as this is a completely outrageous violation of so many rights. I am just thinking of what lies they might use in court to justify this.

gte910h• 16 years ago

It's okay to spy on your kids by your arguments at best.

It's not okay for anyone to spy on anyone else's kids though.

JunkDNA• 16 years ago

Found a PDF of the filing itself:

http://craphound.com/robbins17.pdf

It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could think this was an OK idea.

dantheman• 16 years ago

Power hungry bureaucrats who have an end justifies the means philosophy -- who don't understand that their job is to serve and not to control.

Silhouette2• 16 years ago

This reminds me of the strip search story from a few months ago. A young girl was searched by school officials. As it turned out, she was only carrying prescription drugs.

While the Supreme Court found that the search had been illegal (amazingly, only by an 8-1 majority) they also ruled that the officials concerned could not be held personally liable. This was because it supposedly wasn't obvious to the officials at the time whether what they were doing was illegal or improper.

Now, while I can understand that as a matter of law any court can only rule on the specific details of a particular case in context and they have to worry about a suitable burden of proof, I have to wonder how anyone could think it was OK to strip search a 13-year-old on some vague suspicion about carrying drugs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/national/main51125...

sophacles3• 16 years ago

More disturbing about that is this: I face serious consequences for all sorts of things, many of which I don't know are illegal. Some of those things I don't know the legalities of are related to my profession. Yet, while being tried, if I put up a "I didn't know it was illegal" defense, I would be laughed at, found guilty and fined/jailed/etc. Why do the school officials get out of liability for not knowing that their actions were illegal?

NEPatriot• 16 years ago

I've always been paranoid that the people I work for would turn on the video camera on my laptop and just observe me work...

Daniel_Newby2• 16 years ago

If this violated child pornography laws, we will get the remarkable outcome that a school system is not allowed within 2500 feet of a school. So it's not all bad!

tibbon• 16 years ago

Should set some interesting precedent. If this isn't child pornography, spying, unlawful wiretapping, etc... then I don't know what is.

cgranade12• 16 years ago

Given the role that schools have played in destroying the lives of some children by getting authorities involved in "sexting" cases, it would be especially ironic if this spying program produced child pornography charges. After all, in many cases, intent isn't required-- people have been arrested for having malware download child porn without the user's authorization or knowledge. Given that precedent, doing something like this and accidentally gathering child porn by taking an irresponsible and already likely illegal action would seem to be enough for the courts. Not being a lawyer, I don't know if this intuition is correct, but it would be an interesting precedent, no doubt.

olliesaunders• 16 years ago

Since when did surveillance == pornography? Is CCTV pornography? This story isn't even about pornography. Why are we talking about pornography?!

dbz• 16 years ago

Everyone who even knew about the computer webcam spying should go to prison. The fact that this could have been used as spying for child pornography- should be treated as an attempt of attaining child pornography.

Confusion3• 16 years ago

No it shouldn't. As long as there is no indication that there were sexual motives, than no accusations of sexual motives should be made. The invasion of our rights in the name of our children has gone far enough. You shouldn't gratuitously say anything that encourages child pornography hysteria. You are just saying it because it serves your point that these guys should be punished severely. However, not even these guys deserve to be branded as child pornographers if they aren't.

cduan2• 16 years ago

There doesn't appear to be a claim in the complaint regarding any child pornography laws yet. But who knows--that may change if new photos turn up during discovery.

Here's some thoughts on the Fourth Amendment illegal search claim, at least:

There is this 2001 case, Kyllo v. United States, that held it illegal for the police to use a thermal scanner to detect heat lamps in a guy's house (the heat lamps being used to grow marijuana). The Supreme Court held, in an opinion by Justice Scalia:

"Where...the Government uses a device that is not in general public use, to explore details of the home that would previously have been unknowable without physical intrusion, the surveillance is a 'search' and is presumptively unreasonable without a warrant."

Seems to me this case falls pretty squarely within the Kyllo rule. Maybe webcams are in public use, but a spy program connected to a webcam and operated by someone other than the possessor of the computer would probably not be. The webcam photos were of the inside of a home, and those photos could not have otherwise been taken without going inside the home.

furyg3• 16 years ago

That's with regard to a crime, however, not a school policy.

You may very well be allowed to die your hair blue, have a "legalize weed" bumper sticker on your guitar case, or an explicit novel in your backpack off campus, but if you do any of those things on-campus you violate school rules and can be punished.

Furthermore, even things you do off-campus can violate your school's code of conduct (writing about how much your teacher sucks publicly on Facebook), and you can be punished at school.

CWuestefeld2• 16 years ago

There is this 2001 case, Kyllo v. United States, that held it illegal for the police to use a thermal scanner to detect heat lamps

I don't think that's precisely correct. It's not illegal -- the cops aren't going to be sent to jail. It just makes the evidence inadmissible.

And that subtlety makes all the difference in this application.

protomyth2• 16 years ago

There is a small sentence at the bottom of the complaint that says they will amend if any qualifying picts / information is produced.

DavidSJ• 16 years ago

This takes things one giant leap further, but my cousin in high school already has his personal email and home web browsing read by a team of school monitors, thanks to the provision of a laptop by his public high school.

Of course, his parents are unlikely to buy him his own laptop since he's already got one, so what does he need another one for?

JshWright5• 16 years ago

What's stopping him from buying his own laptop?

fogus• 16 years ago

Cost?

conorgil• 16 years ago

Money. Students in high school may not have enough money to buy a laptop.

ErrantX9• 16 years ago

That's a violation of various computer misuse laws. Get him to file a police complaint.

JshWright5• 16 years ago

How is that a violation? I assume the school actually owns the laptop, and the monitoring is disclosed up front.

covercash2• 16 years ago

You should make him an Ubuntu Live CD/USB for home use.

illumin8• 16 years ago

https://gmail.google.com - Make sure you're getting Google's SSL cert and not the schools. For private browsing there is Tor.

Better to just work around the system. If you try to change it you'll be flagged as a criminal or terrorist and they'll start watching you more closely.

Move along student/citizen... nothing to see here.

bediger• 16 years ago

All this proves is that the several countries (USA, UK, others) have legal systems that are inconsistent, at least in the formal systems sense. Starting with "laws" as axioms, and some set of rules of deduction, you can get anywhere: Person X is a pedophile, Student Z behaves improperly on Mars, etc etc.

ErrantX9• 16 years ago

The real question is: where is the criminal investigation?

This breaks so many laws it's not funny.

And the kid originally being disciplined at school for something he did at home.

It's the first time for a while news like this has made me feel physically sick! Lock them up :(

Skriticos• 16 years ago

This was the first thing I was asking myself too.

AFAIK only a limited group of people is allowed to do such a thing (law enforcement) and only if the have a court warrant for it.

If they really pulled this off, then they are in very deep shit..

electromagnetic2• 16 years ago

Well not only could every board member potentially face criminal charges, similar for every teacher who was in on this, but the entire school (or multiple if it's owned by a group) is financially liable, likely to the tune of tens to hundreds of thousands per person. This shit could easily shut this school down, and if that's the least that happens it's a grand achievement.

steveklabnik4• 16 years ago

> And the kid originally being disciplined at school for something he did at home.

This is pretty standard practice. Schools have all kinds of 'code of conduct' things that can get you in trouble for things that didn't happen on school grounds.

ErrantX9• 16 years ago

I know; but in his own home! It's psychopathic.

cgranade12• 16 years ago

Have those "code of conduct" policies ever seen a direct court challenge?

Confusion3• 16 years ago

This is pretty standard practice.

In the US. Certainly not in Europe.

jules• 16 years ago

> things that can get you in trouble for things that didn't happen on school grounds

What?! There is no way that kind of policy would be tolerated here. What is the logic behind this?

DanielBMarkham6• 16 years ago

Agreed.

An arm of the government inserting hundreds or thousands surveillance devices in people's homes without their consent? I can't imagine getting more upset.

In fact, the story is almost too perfect. It wouldn't surprise me to find out either it's bogus or big parts of it have been left out.

But if the skeleton of this story holds true, somebody needs to go to jail. Not get fired. Not get fined. But go to jail. For a very. long. time.

cgranade12• 16 years ago

As I've said elsewhere, and as Cory Doctrow mentioned in his write-up, this kind of complete invasion trains children to become adults who do not value privacy and who do not understand why it is important to be vigilant against just this kind of thing. For many of the children growing up under this kind of privacy-less regime, there is nothing absurd about the NSA's warrantless wiretapping programs, nothing unconscionable about the Total Information Awareness office and the PATRIOT Act. Guilt becomes the default, and the state's actions in obtaining evidence of guilt are justified under this kind of an inverted (perverted?) worldview.

bgraves2• 16 years ago

This was part of a program on PBS called Digital Nation. The show was very interesting, and there's a section where the school IT administrator demonstrates his ability to pull up a students laptop ... and working webcam.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learni...

The relevant part starts at about 4:35. "They don't even realize that we are watching. I always like to mess with them and take a picture."

soult• 16 years ago

That's horrible!

Also: How the hell did they finance handing out Mac laptops to all their students?

vaksel• 16 years ago

through sale of kiddy porn?

bgraves2• 16 years ago

Well, the video and article mentions Google and Google Docs about a dozen times...I think Google provided some or all of the financing.

From their website: http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/09/X339/default.htm

Showcased by Google as highly innovative school [http://a.parsons.edu/~jenkc865/339/nyc_is339_cs.pdf]

chrischen• 16 years ago

I thought they were using laptops on carts. My school does that too. Did they give every student a computer to take home?

f_sav3• 16 years ago

So that'd mean some schools (or is it the same one?) did such spying without even trying to conceal it. That it hadn't occurred to students to cover the camera with something is a bit troubling too (either they don't realize the possibility/risk or they don't care).

I may sound paranoid, but having integrated cameras in almost every electronic device around, with no easy physical (vs. software) way of blocking it somehow, is a recipe for such situations happening one day or the other (of course that doesn't make it any more OK).

cgranade12• 16 years ago

As opposed to pocket electronics with integrated microphones? Think of all the embarassment that has occured due to pocket dialing, and now consider if that had been intentional. It's harder to block a microphone than a camera lens, too, and less obvious where the microphone is.

3dFlatLander• 16 years ago

To be fair to the school shown in that particular documentary, they weren't looking at the students through a webcam. It looks like they're using a remote desktop program to look at the students desktop. He explained that many students use the webcam program as a mirror to look at themselves or just mess around.

mkyc• 16 years ago

The students and parents are also presumably fully aware. If on the other hand they were unaware, the student's mistake of opening a webcam program would not reduce culpability.

motters2• 16 years ago

I've seen a lot of stuff on the web, but that video is truly shocking. The complete lack of concern for the privacy/dignity either of the children or their families and the complacent attitude of the IT guy is really disheartening to see. I think it shows how organizations can become enchanted with the technology, whilst forgetting some of the most basic human values.

vault_• 16 years ago

That's interesting to see from an administrator point of view, but also quite disturbing.

The school I go to now has a similar program (Macbooks for every student), and the Remote Desktop program is used on our laptops as well. It used to be a serious point of contention between the administration and the students. A large number of students actually covered up the webcams on their computer with tape or similar to stop people from watching them.

In theory, the requirements for monitoring were that every once in a while, everyone's computer would have its desktop monitored without their knowledge. If they were doing anything that they weren't supposed to (e.g. on Facebook (via proxies), or looking at porn) Photo Booth, the webcam application, would be opened and a screenshot would be taken, capturing both the offending behavior and the offender.

I know that on a computer provided by the school, any preconception of privacy should be abandoned, but it still seems like a bit much. It seems to me that simply logging activity and then punishing the student after it had been reviewed would be easier and more transparent.

flogic• 16 years ago

I think this is a clear indication that we need an IT code of ethics. Yeah it's cute that as a programmer or administrator you have all this power, but we don't have the right to invade people's privacy.

covercash2• 16 years ago

I knew some folks who worked at a neighboring school district and while laptops never went home with the children, Remote Desktop screen caps of the sleazy superintendent engaged in affairs with teachers and potential new hires were taken. From the stories I hear, the administration in most PA public school systems is disgustingly corrupt.

hga4• 16 years ago

Yeah, I can believe that, PA seems to have a lot of fantastically corrupt public officials. This is after all the state with the "cash for kids" scheme, where judges took bribes/extorted money from a private prison and in turn threw thousands of kids into it, plenty completely innocent (e.g. one in a case for publishing a web page that was derogatory towards a teacher). If it wasn't all involving Democrats, it would be worldwide headline news, instead the judges were allowed to plea bargain to quite modest tax evasion charges.

zoba• 16 years ago

I wonder what offense the child committed at home that got him in trouble with the school?

sophacles3• 16 years ago

They won't tell us that, because of privacy concerns :P

hga4• 16 years ago

Allegedly selling drugs. The "child" claims he was photographed holding "Mike and Ike candy": "Official: FBI probing Pa. school webcam spy case" (an AP story): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02...

hga4• 16 years ago

The referenced article has been changed by the AP; look here for how to get the original: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1139404

jrockway2• 16 years ago

The only thing I don't believe is how a school district could afford to develop such sophisticated software.

ciscoriordan• 16 years ago

Taxes.

jrockway2• 16 years ago

Dunno where you're from, but I've never seen government-sponsored software that actually worked properly.

(I remember reading the unemployment insurance website for Illinois once... it only works in IE. Error page: http://www.ides.state.il.us/idclaim/alert.asp )

akadien2• 16 years ago

Wait till a school administrator gets the bright idea of doing the same thing on school-issued iPhones and other mobile devices.

johns• 16 years ago

Schools are issuing iPhones?

akadien2• 16 years ago

Meh. Maybe I meant iPods. Too eager to get my flippant comment posted, I guess.

Confusion3• 16 years ago

This really lowers ones faith in mankind. What on earth possessed these people? There must have been at least three people with knowledge of this and probably more. None of them thought it was enough of a problem to speak out against it and make a racket if necessary? I can understand one person having a crazy thought and I can imagine him convincing a second. But as soon as a third found out, the whole affair should have been seen for what it was: an invasion of privacy.

jdietrich2• 16 years ago

Don't just sit there fuming - do something.

You can contact the school board's directors at capitalcomments@lmsd.org or call (610) 645-1800

If you believe that a criminal act may have been committed, you can contact the Montgomery County District Attorney at KKasopsk@montcopa.org or call (610) 278-3090

cgranade12• 16 years ago

It seems a bit irresponsible to me to encourage people not directly involved to call the authorities over this. Surely they have been made aware, if only by the media. Often times (again, not a lawyer, so I don't know how to nail this down), charges and complaints can only be filed by those directly victimized by a crime. If people followed your suggestion, then the DA's office would soon be flooded with redundant, useless and perhaps counter-productive communications.

jdietrich2• 16 years ago

The DA's office provides a form on their website to report a crime - they are actively inviting people to report illegal activity. DAs only prosecute where they believe it is in the public interest to do so.

Would you call the cops if you saw a guy on the corner of your street dealing drugs? Would you do something if you heard your neighbour beating his wife? If you would, then why stay silent just because the criminals are a school board?

It is our democratic duty to speak up. It is our duty as citizens to apply pressure to those in power to do the right thing.

What do you think the Christian right would do if they got wind that a school was, for instance, permitting it's students to view pornography? They would be calling the DA, calling the school board, calling their senator in huge numbers and rightly so - that's how you achieve change in a democracy.

It's not irresponsible to do your democratic duty.

holdenc• 16 years ago

I wonder if these laptops had a recording light by the camera like most. Wouldn't this have been an immediate tip-off to everyone? Disabling the recording light (if this happened) would have required some effort as well...

rmorrison• 16 years ago

I would hope that recording lights are hardware operated, so that they cannot be disabled via software. When the camera is on, the light is on.

there• 16 years ago

i've long had an irrational fear that someone would compromise my computer and upload some modified firmware to the camera that would allow it to record without illuminating the light.

i always keep a piece of electrical tape over the cameras on my computers now.

</tinfoil_hat>

blhack• 16 years ago

Uhh...which laptops have a recording light on them? Mine certainly does not.

c3o• 16 years ago

Macs

sketerpot• 16 years ago

My Asus laptop has one. It's small and green, and if it weren't there, I would always be paranoid that my laptop was spying on me.

olefoo3• 16 years ago

All Macs that have cameras do. And it shows to the OS as a USB sensor. Obviously there must be ways to turn it on without lighting the light,

motters2• 16 years ago

Technology enabled spying seems to be completely ubiquitous now. Maybe new laws can be passed, but given recent history I'm not optimistic about that. Probably the best strategy is to try to encourage more equiveillance.

As an immediate workaround if you are the parent of one of the children with these laptops:

i) Complain to the school. Make sure your complaint is formally registered (not just verbal on the phone).

ii) Install an operating system onto the laptop yourself, to ensure that there is nothing untoward installed in the background. Preferably use some linux distro, or if you are an ardent Windows fan take a backup image after a new installation which can easily be restored later to overwrite any nasties which may have been installed later.

DanielBMarkham6• 16 years ago

Speaking of school's control and observation of kids not on their premises, wasn't there a case a while back where a kid skipped school and later appeared on TV holding a "Bush sucks!" protest sign? My memory is fuzzy on this, but it seems like the courts upheld the right of the school to punish the kid? Anybody got a link for that case?

Extrapolating from what I don't know into things I can't even speculate on (I love the internet), what if these administrators saw the same kids engaging in obscene political action, like defiling election signs or something? Or witnessed a murder? If I remember correctly, even police who are authorized to eavesdrop are bound by all kinds of rules about what they can observe and what they're forced to take action on.

DanielBMarkham6• 16 years ago

Found it -- it was the kid who displayed the sign "Bong hits for Jesus" and the school administrators were supported in suppressing free speech at a school-sponsored event. I love that kid!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_v._Frederick

Also for those interested in learning more about the control schools have over free speech, here's a great PDF http://breitlinks.com/freespeechpdf/speech.pdf

I guess the point I was getting to was this: if a kid is at home on a school laptop, supposedly only doing schoolwork, is that a school-sponsored event? Would any activity constitute a school-sponsored event? Do school administrators have an obligation to report any crimes they may see when using this? If not, could they be considered accomplices? I would think not, but I'm not sure.

Not only is this an awful invasion of privacy, it muddles up the public sector deep in the heart of all sorts of other individual rights. So if the courts were to rule this legal (which I find highly unlikely) it would make a mess out of all sorts of other laws. In my opinion.

nfnaaron• 16 years ago

If a district employee came home with the student, while I was there, with my permission, and helped him or observed his work, I'd be OK with that. Again, with my permission and knowledge.

If the same employee was peeking through the window ...

0wned• 16 years ago

Another problem fixed with duct tape!

tlrobinson2• 16 years ago

There's still the microphone...

But this sort of thing makes me glad Apple at least hardwires an LED which turns on when the camera is in use on all Macs.

obsaysditto• 16 years ago

From the Philadelphia Inquirer: "This is the first we have heard of this lawsuit being filed and the plaintiff's allegations," he said today. "However, we can categorically state that we are - and have always been - committed to protecting the privacy of our students."

"Our district was one of the first to provide free laptops to all of our high school students," Young said. "This initiative has been incredibly successful and well received in our school community."

"We have referred this matter to our attorneys for appropriate legal action and plan to communicate with parents and students with more information as it becomes available."

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20100218_Suit__Sc...

DanielBMarkham6• 16 years ago

On one hand I really hope the original story is false/overblown, like perhaps the kid was using his webcam in a public setting online and the administrators were simply monitoring. (Which is weird, but not as weird as full-control spying)

On the other hand, if it turns out that the story is overblown, I am getting really, really, really, really tired of web outlets yanking my libertarian chain. True abuse needs to be confronted. If this is baseless rumor or purposeful link-baiting, it does more to hurt privacy (by making people used to such accusations) than the administrators ever may have done.

wallflower• 16 years ago

Best case scenario for school district:

Prove via FBI or forensic information security audit team that there was no monitoring software of any kind, no remote monitoring, no logging. Prove that the assistant principal did not know what he/she was talking about when she was directly questioned by the parent.

Prove there was no conspiracy to monitor students in their bedrooms. Prove (this is hard) that the assistant principal obtained the incriminating photo by illegally searching their hard drive. Provide settlement in six figures with half of proceeds going to subsidize free laptop program for inner city Philadelphia.

Put assistant principal on leave, supply black electrical tape fee-free, remove any Remote Desktop capabilities in the OS. Hold press conference with state attorney general in two weeks to jointly demonstrate total innocence.

Worst case: TV crews camped out on Lower Merion High School campus for weeks.

tlrobinson2• 16 years ago

Watch out for the telescreens, comrades!

moron4hire• 16 years ago

Sounds like someone in school administration sat in on the highschool students' reading of 1984 and picked up a few ideas.

nym• 16 years ago

I see a lot of child pornography arguments being made, but what if this was a work laptop that you brought home and your boss spied on you?

Would that be okay?

rms• 16 years ago

Update: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/19/laptop.suit/index.html?h...

School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

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