DARPA: U.S. Geek Shortage Is National Security Risk

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01/darpa-us-geek-shortage-is-a-national-security-risk/#ixzz0cjjwvDR5

by cwan • 17 years ago

26 28 17 years ago

Hmm,

When I read this, it seemed like there was a disconnect between the out-sourcing trend and this desire for more computer geeks.

Interestingly, when I recently read BLS website on programmer jobs prospects, they projected a decrease. You can find a reference to this projection here: http://education-portal.com/articles/Mastercam_Programmer_Jo...

But now, the very recently updated BLS website paints a rosy picture.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos303.htm

Woo, spooky. Maybe the BLS is listening to darpa at least... WTF!

joe_the_user2• 17 years ago

Weird, reading more carefully, the BLS projects more software engineers but fewer programmers. Fooled me since personnel directors are the only people I've heard distinguish the two job types.

blackguardx• 17 years ago

I think software engineers are generally jobs that require a B.S. Programmers might simply be someone with an A.S. or no college doing non-complex programming tasks. Much of this work is being outsourced.

access_denied• 17 years ago

Mhm, maybe there is a disconnect between what is good for the nation and who profits from that out-sourcing trend? (No offense to non-US hackers.)

colah• 17 years ago

>The Pentagon’s far-out research arm Darpa is soliciting >proposals for initiatives that would attract teens to >careers in science, technology, engineering and math >(STEM), with an emphasis on computing.

_Teaching_ these subjects to teens would probably be a good start.

I'm being serious. The junk that is taught in most schools (and I'm Canadian: our education system is supposedly better than the US) and absurdly labeled these subjects is a huge part of the problem.

Math is taught like magic. Experiments have been banned from the science classroom. Computer science classes teach typing.

I'm exaggerating a little: math occasionally gets explanations, science may occasionally have a very simple experiment, computer science students may learn some programing. But those are the exception, not the rule.

It's utterly broken.

andreyf3• 17 years ago

Complaining is easy, but how do we fix it? Alan Kay has some ideas: http://vpri.org/html/work/tlpiese.htm

In essence, he believes the power of computers is as a medium for experimentation. If you make it easy for kids to simulate models from axioms, they'll be able to think better. One might call that "programming", but it's really quite a bit more than what people do now.

rick_20472• 17 years ago

Complaining is easy, but how do we fix it?

Um.. in this case fixing is also pretty easy.Just start with making a curriculum which is more inclined towards experimentation and research. Tell students to find things out by them selves instead of spoon feeding them. Tell them the syntax of the language and then keep lab open (open as in anyone can come in and do programming) so that they can work on interesting things. And above all, GRADE them on these experiments. Start off with keeping them as extra credit and graduate that to making it a part of curriculum.

PS:May be one day I would have money and will open up something like "South Harmon Institute of Technology" from the movie "Accepted". Where mind is allowed to stroll freely in the depths of thoughts not drown in books and formulas.

nostrademons3• 17 years ago

Does this mean that if we're ever in a shooting war, the military's first priority will be to get all the geeks out of harm's way?

lisper• 17 years ago

If there's a geek shortage, why are there so many unemployed and underemployed geeks?

potatolicious• 17 years ago

Because there's a difference between a geek and an employable geek.

There, I said it, it's not going to be a popular opinion, especially since I'm a Canadian expat in the USA "stealing your jerbs". I know many others like me, who are being well above average rates to work in this country, whose very employment carries steep legal and bureaucratic overhead for our employers. Yet Canadians, Indians, Europeans, etc etc, are still being imported by the planeloads. I know for a fact that our HR department scours American schools for qualified graduates constantly, yet we can't fill spaces quick enough.

I've thought about this some, and my conclusion is that a lot of American geeks just don't work very hard - you have the people who hang out on Digg/Reddit all day. Yeah, they're geeks, but how many languages do they know? Can they build a site from back to front? Do they know their algorithms? People on HN need to realize that they're a vanishingly small minority of the set of all geeks, and that as a crew are in general much more ambitious and capable than most. There's a long way between "I like computers" and "I'm willing to pour ungodly amounts of time into learning computers". For every geek who takes the time to learn all the toolkits and languages to get employed, there are 500 others who couldn't be bothered, and will complain endlessly about undeserving foreigners stealing jobs rightfully theirs.

In other words, for every geek who knows Python inside and out, is up to date on all the latest web technologies, has experience building large scalable systems, etc etc... there are 500 others who can only write VB, and will endlessly complain that they're not employed, or that they're not being paid enough. Unfortunately no "geek employment" number will ever be able to separate the two.

geebee• 17 years ago

"a lot of American geeks just don't work very hard"

Another perspective could be that (most) Americans who work hard don't become geeks, because the rewards aren't commensurate with other professions.

If you're interested in reading some support for this position, you might check out a recent RAND study that concluded that "cience and technology performance, but said the slow growth of U.S.-born technical workers "will change when the earnings and attractiveness of S&E (science and engineering) careers improve."

A summary is available here:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2009-07-08-science-engi...

The full RAND study is at:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP241/

patio112• 17 years ago

I think "both sides" are having difficulty make things work here. I work at Generic Japanese Megacorp, which could easily be Generic American Megacorp except with rather less white people. My day job expects me to have a 4 year degree in a rigorous field of study, be expert at our problem domains, be proficient to expert in a list of technologies which I quite literally cannot fit on a single page in 8 pt font, and have unlimited tolerance for overtime. In return, I'm paid about what an English teacher makes. Why can't my employer find more geeks like me? Hmm, that's a tough one.

Then there's the other side of the fence: some of my friends use Ubuntu on their laptops, are really good with the Internet, and can quote every episode of the Simpsons ever. Quite a few are stuck in jobs like software testing. Why can't they find jobs paying $80,000 which require none of the commercial skills they have assiduously avoided learning? Hmm, tough one.

gizmomagico2• 17 years ago

> be proficient to expert in a list of technologies which I quite literally cannot fit on a single page in 8 pt font

Are you? Is it even possible to be? Those requirements sound unrealistically high, so either you're a supergenius, you're exaggerating, or your company lists insane requirements and then doesn't actually require them.

rick_20472• 17 years ago

Correct me if I am wrong but dont they mean a computer science nerd rather than a geek? I mean geek is someone eccentric with a single minded approach to anything from comics to radios. But a nerd is a obsessive personality with a single minded approach towards his field.

stakent• 17 years ago

Maybe this has something to do with "National Security Risk"?

"Students were evacuated from Millennial Tech Magnet Middle School in the Chollas View neighborhood Friday afternoon after an 11-year-old student brought a personal science project that he had been making at home to school ..." http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jan/15/students-evac...

Found via http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1056904

DARPA: U.S. Geek Shortage Is National Security Risk

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