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trasz4

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trasz@FreeBSD.org - FreeBSD committer, Cambridge researcher, NAFO fan, 50 Cent Army member, lifelong deviationist. Likes Unix, HP calculators, and Skinny Puppy. Hates when people get killed, especially for religion and oil.

PS. To the Americans among you, the 50 Cent thing isn't really true; see https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Previously (as "trasz", "trasz2", spot the pattern) banned for pointing out that HN tolerates racism, and that they are lying about their moderation policies.

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Words matter especially right now when Ruzzia is propagandizing everything to find allies for their illegal war.

This is actually a good argument, and one of the reasons I've been abstaining from criticising western countries lately. But now the world consensus on Russian invasion has been reached, support for Ukraine is working full speed, so I think I can return to my regularly scheduled programme.

This is the same logic that China uses to ban all western apps

Except it doesn't. It's just that apps are required to follow local laws, and many companies - like Google - don't want to, because their entire business is exploiting users' privacy.

Of course I meant that there are plenty of _valid_ secular arguments.

And I've responded there are none. And you've not been able to provide any.

Regardless, you may find that the right of the mother to bodily autonomy outweighs the right of the fetus to life, but not everyone will weigh the situation the same.

Of course, in particular people who believe woman are not proper humans. And it just so happens that this is the view of Catholic Church.

Some argue that the temporary albeit serious inconvenience to the mother

I don't think this line requires any comment.

The funny thing is that each side seems to think this

Again, same as with any other fallacy, like flat earth.

if you cannot understand the other side's arguments, that is a weakness of your own mental model

If you cannot understand flat earther's arguments, that's a weakness of your own mental model? :)

FWIW, I do understand those arguments. It's just that I also understand they are stupid and evil - because they flow from ideology which is stupid and evil.

There are plenty of secular arguments against abortion.

There are plenty of secular arguments for flat earth. It's not about the number of arguments, but about their validity. There are no secular arguments that don't depend on logical fallacies or invalid assumptions.

Abortion balances the life, health, and happiness of the mother against the life of the unborn fetus.

And similarly when talking about forcing someone to donate their blood, or part of liver for transplant we'd need to balance the rights of the forced donor and the rights of the prospective transplant receiver, right?

IMO this is one of the most ethically challenging questions that we're still arguing about as a society.

It's not only not one of the challenging ones, it's not a serious question at all. Modern ethics is pretty clear on reproductive rights.

Also, “life begins at conception,” or at another very early stage, isn’t a Christian innovation. That’s the belief in Shia Islam.

This is a lie ("In Shia Islam, abortion is "forbidden after implantation of the fertilised ovum.", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion). I guess it never occurred to you why even the Sharia countries are not as extreme on abortion as Christian ones.

Certain Sunni schools also prohibit abortion at any stage.

Obvious lie, ibid.

Buddhist

Nope, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_abortion

Same thing in Hinduism

Okay, so this one is not entirely wrong, just mostly wrong (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_abortion).

Once again: "life from conception" is a fringe view specific to Catholicism and borrowed by other extremist branches.

I'd be very surprised if there were zero atheists that were anti-abortion.

Well, sure, there were _some_, eg both Hitler and Stalin have delegalised abortion in their countries. But I'm not sure if that's the kind of moral oracle that todays christian fundamentalists would like to remember.

Uncensored Models 3 years ago

Can you elaborate on the difference? How is maintaining views that go against the accepted scientific consensus different between those two cases?