mhoad

It’s also just not actually true though. It’s not considered good practice to bundle your web components when publishing to npm for this exact reason. That’s something that should happen inside the final app itself where the components get used so you only have one instance of Lit for example if you are using that.

Lit is also totally web standards compliant to be fair.

It would be cool if you could apply even the most basic reading comprehension here where it says there was zero change in team size and stop spreading nonsense.

That’s not actually correct I don’t know where you got that from. This is from this year and was built on top of a wider rewrite of their JS interop using new language features to make it essentially a zero cost abstraction.

Dart has had browser support and DOM APIs before but never had the same APIs you have in the web platform before.

They dropped that “client side” framing a while back thankfully. It’s considered a general purpose language at this point.

This looks like nightmare fuel.

Lit.dev has been nothing but great for me. Strong recommendation.

I don’t know if you actually read the article or not but just to be clear that was not the argument that was made.

It’s not just “not new” it’s considered to be actively worse than all of its peers in terms of things like performance and complexity, it’s actively a very questionable choice in a greenfield project in 2023.

Flutter overtook RN a while back in terms of popularity in a few different metrics if I recall correctly. I forget the specifics but something from GitHub and StackOverflow I think.

Regardless of the specifics I don’t think the narrative is true, Flutter has had substantial continued growth for years now.

Just as an FYI your information is a bit out of date. They rewrote their entire graphics pipeline a while back to solve exactly this.

This is what it looks like now in terms of performance if you want a demo https://flutter.gskinner.com/wonderous/

I’m actively trying to move more and more of my stuff into Dart these days it’s actually an amazing language to work with.

While that really was a big issue, that hasn’t been true for a while now.

This is why you are comparing it against every other site in the same situation. At the end of the day based on the data it’s entirely fair to say Next is not a framework known for producing anything other than substantially below average outcomes when it comes to performance.

Strong disagree on this one. We are talking about the difference between theoretical performance (what you COULD do) vs performance in reality (this is a dataset that measures all the various nextjs websites across the web and then compares them along well established benchmarks against the rest of the internet across time).

One of those two things is infinitely more valuable than the other.

For all of its marketing hype, Next is actually kind of dogshit when it comes to performance especially compared to something like Astro

https://calendar.perfplanet.com/2022/mobile-performance-of-n...

I’m begging you to please actually learn the real story so you don’t have to run around embarrassing yourself in the future.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

You made an argument saying that even Google won’t use it for cross platform.

I have some context as to why it’s both a wrong and misleading statement.

When it came to the biggest money maker of the entire business this is what they picked. When it came to a new greenfield project for an entire OS… this is what they picked for the UI.

The statements you made about “the lessons they learned” is just some stuff you made up and isn’t actually supported by facts.

It’s less dramatic in real life https://dart.dev/guides/json even more so in Dart 3 https://dart.dev/language/records

Ads is all flutter on mobile and Dart on the web.

Fuchsia is an OS that is also using Flutter for their entire UI layer.

I think there’s more a case of there isn’t an argument for doing but rewrites just because Flutter is now a thing but in a greenfield scenario it would be a serious contender

Also worth keeping in mind some of the cross language extension points in Dart.

Compiles to Wasm and can work with other compile to wasm languages.

Has quite good support for C, C++, JS, Swift, Java and Rust interop where they have tools that will write all of the glue code for you.

Also has decent gRPC support meaning you can use any other language that also fits that category.

It’s a small Dart ecosystem but it’s fundamentals are great and it’s extension points are much better than you will likely find elsewhere.

Dart is actually hands down one of the most productive languages out there right now in terms of ergonomics. It’s still a tiny language ecosystem at the moment but there are already a lot of happy paths that will get you to an incredibly high level of quality with very little work.

I don’t know if even that was actually true? As far as I know the moment they introduced canvas as a rendering target they also produced a DOM structure along side it to capture the accessibility tree as they were still waiting on a more native solution in the form of AOM (accessibility object model) to be finalised.

It’s the 50% drop in revenue with no viable path back combined with the huge brand damage he has done that is causing people to say it’s dying.

The only question left at this point is how soon.

How the fuck is this nonsense on the front page with just 3 votes?

Same deal with Google Messages

https://security.googleblog.com/2023/07/an-important-step-to...

I always had the impression that the relationship was in reverse but maybe this is what you had in mind? https://github.com/material-components/material-web

It’s correct in the same way Joe Rogan talking about anything other than MMA or comedy feels correct to some people.

It’s great at feeling like you’ve said something clever but also makes it clear you haven’t actually thought about the topic for more than five minutes and you just said the first thing that came to mind and missed a bunch of important points in the process.

There are actually a bunch of really compelling strategic level national security style reasons to come to the same conclusion, it’s not purely just a consumer rights issue.

That’s the only obvious and reasonable answer.

This story is adjacent to some topics I follow fairly closely for various reasons.

I had seen a lot of not super well informed commentary on it when it was talked about here previously and so in that spirit I wanted to offer a short 20 minute chat that was aimed at policy makers between a well respected infosec journalist and someone who previously spent a long time working at the Australian equivalent of NSA about this particular topic.

I’d like to think it helps provide the outlines of how professionals in and around that field tend to think about it while not getting so caught up in a strictly US perspective.

Hopefully some of you find it helpful.

https://overcast.fm/+5Sl8Ai8LA