lionshare

But not in Google Apps! Google had no problem to add tasks (talk to remember the milk). But why not project management? BTW - it's fair. J.Fried is using his ammunition to protect his business. But let's just call it what it is.

Reg innovative: Huddle chat was written in weeks. We can only guess where it be now. Basecamp is great, but very similar to what it was 2 years ago

Anyway guys, we all should only hope the best of luck for this Diaspora thing instead of bashing them. That's all I'm saying. Mr. Fried could wait at least until the finance period is done.

And you tell me, please, why there is no project management solution in Google Apss

Not a bit. They are a great company, great products and great inspiration.

I just think that this post is ugly. He could wait a while, let them finish the finance, let them work, and in a few months write about the results. The rush, the hurry, the strong word ("a curse") is - to me - too bold to be pure "startup/product advice" issue.

So 4 CS grads raising below seed round range for a much needed project and supported by so many people is a Curse? For THAT he could not sleep?

A pity that this attitude comes from a startup news site. Again: It's a paradigm shift that should enable to create new class of web applications in "nodes" instead of "central hubs". And all central hub owners, who make their revenues from the old paradigm, should be worried. We have seen this shifts wiping out companies so fast before. It's not something to laugh about.

He is just trying to stop the finance momentum.

Huddle-chat was free. They shut it down for no reason but J Fried loud "Google is evil" complains. Techcrunch here http://techcrunch.com/2008/04/08/google-to-close-huddlechat/ Gigaom here: http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-les... So we have to pay for Campfire. And nobody did Basecamp as is, which is not that complicated, for the same reason.

Than how do you explain his (successful) campaign against the free google chat that competes with Campfire? Google shut it down, basically, because it's "unfair to J.Fried". Since Google did it, nobody else dare to compete directly with Basecamp, as is.

Diaspora is a paradigm shift, and it will be easier to implement a better Basecamp without single point of registration and billing.

Think Wordpress.

Fried just doesn't want you to have that option for project management. It's not about Diasopora, it's about Basecamp.

fair, but let them finish the finance properly. This is not a reality check, it a move to stop the finance from a potential competing tool

great point

big diff

1. Everything in this industry "starts with a few geeks". Including FB and that colorful logo company.

2. Let's do the math: FB valuation is 25B. 2% chances * 25B = Expectation of 500M. In these terms, a 250K kickapp funding is super-super-smart move :)

3. The question is not if Diaspora succeed but if the open source community can produce a distributed solution that will have non-geeky clients. It takes time, sure, but you have got to start somewhere (maybe the Flock social browser should team up as a non-geeky client?)

4. Hosting is no problem. It's like Wordpress hosting, it's done everywhere for cheap (and these are the bad news for J.Fried)

5. Google or FB? I prefer Goog.

as long as the protocol is done right, applications are endless. TCP is maybe 30 years old? The copy is an issue - because once it's copied you can not fully control it, similar to Facebook.

Yes, there will be disappointments. But it's not "a curse", a healthy 250K seed-stage worth is not the end of the world, and as someone pointed here: it's an open source seed. It will grow. Fried should not bash them like that, unless he has some special interest - which he does. The Diaspora paradigm threatens his core business and he knows it.

True, true, true.

They will not take FB themselves, but this project will start the underlying infra. The "BitTornet" of social networks. Than we will need the clients, the eco system etc. But it's the first essential step.

And guess what? one of Diaspora's applications will be a distributed project management layer. And the FB of project management, Basecamp, will not like it.

So we better keep supporting it for the remaining 15 days than listening to a the "closed system" competitor(Fried).

hmmm... interesting. But really, to write some client software that stores and provides read/write of the common "social content" (pics, blog posts, writing on the wall etc) in common standard RESTful way is such a far fetched dream? It could be simple as www.mysite.com/diaspora/albums or www.mysite.com/diaspora/wall.

Even Obama can handle it. (Not to mention 4 dedicated CS grads)

well, they probably played with some draft code, hooking some libraries, and this is why they asked only 10K. as a summer vacation thing. but they are on something important, the idea is right, the timing is right, and technically feasible. These funds and support are not what they expected - but taking financial distractions out of the equation, they have better chances to do it. It's an interesting thing, and the best thing would be to support them or at least wait before calling it curse.

Question is if you and me will install and use these nodes?

Exactly! We agree here. This is why they succeeded. And this is why the old anti-raising money arguments of J.Fried do not hold. And his "anti-evil" strategy also doesn't work here. So he picks the "no product" PR strategy (again, when Google had a full product, albeit free and competing with Campfire, it was the "evil" PR strategy).

It's a PR to stop a competing trend, a paradigm shift that sooner or later threatens his core business.

His subtext is sorta "listen, don't give them more money because it will spoil them and there will be no product."

I see no other way to start such a project than a few geeks sitting and building it, and nothing will help them more than a few months freedom from financial distractions.

"It's another to get in front of a movement that's predicated largely on hate"

37 signals, Getting real: "Have an enemy - pick a fight": http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch02_Have_an_Enemy.php

Apparently Mr. Fried just picked them both. To his behalf, he picked the right one. In a way, Basecamp is "Facebook for project management", and Diaspora distributed paradigm can threaten both.

1. A common seed stage is 250K-750K and they are currently way below it. Since they are going open source, there is no better way to achieve it.

2. 250K+ for 4 people will give them the opportunity to focus and advance fast without financial side effects.

3. Since when the J. Fried camp is so worried about specs? They want to build a tool to scrape the data, store it local and make it avail. via standard protocol. Nothing to invent, all the tools are in place, but a lot of hard work on the boring integration/config details and testing.

And to the point again: if such thing work I guess it will not be that hard to include a tasks and project management layer that will hurt Basecamp.

The reality check can be taken one day after the finance period is due. It's not a reality check, it's a deliberate attempt to stop the finance momentum. They have basic specs, and it doesn't look like a rocket surgery (as Steve Krug calls it), certainly not for 4 dedicated CS grads working hard.

And although my comments are demoted here, the truth is that distributed "nodes" is a threat to the "central hub" owners, including J Fried, especially when your customers are geeks who can easily install and config the distributed thing. Paradigm shifts can wipe out other companies very quickly, and Fried knows it.

nice comment from Fried blog (by Mark Pesce): "Jesus fscking Christ. What these kids need is a little support, not some idiot tearing them down because they suddenly find themselves in exactly the right place at exactly the right time with exactly the right idea. Jealous much? If you want to see Diaspora* succeed, then you’d better work very, very hard coming up with solutions to every one of the very real problems you just raised. Otherwise, you’re just a hater, and you’re only making the problem worse."

If you asked MySpace/Friendster few years ago what they think about this student Zuck hacking something in the Harvard dorms, they would probably respond: LOL.

What matters is the trend, and Fried is smart enough to see it.

What unfair here is that he spoils it in the middle of the finance period. They got traction, they look like smart and honest guys. He can bash them one day after the finance is done.

Disclaimer: I use Basecamp and I love it

Why are they screwed? Where is it written that four probably smart and dedicated guys must fail? Because they will have a few month without financial problems? Because they have momentum and support? really.

It's a nasty post to kill the finance momentum.

Please: J. Fried JUST FIGHTS FUTURE COMPETITION. Facebook is a central hub. Basecamp is a central hub. That's the whole story. A project management plug-in to Diaspora that can freely connect people is a threat to Basecamp.

When Google introduced their free chat client, a full product ready to use, he complained about "evil" (and forced us to pay for campfire). Now they are not evil, than it's the product.

Agreed. They can get more. The whole idea of this nasty post is to say 170K is enough. They should reach a decent first seed round cap

I think it's not. It's not the "product". On the Campfire issue he fought against Google's fully baked and ready product. Since he can't stick "evil" to these guys, he took another PR strategy TO SPOIL FURTHER MONEY IN.

As a "central hub" owner he has a strong interest here.

Diaspora barrier will be for non geeks, to install and configure the "nodes". But since many of his customers are geeks, they will have no trouble to switch.

A Diaspora project management plug-in is a Basecamp killer, and J. Fried (=J. Afraid) knows it. What is Facebook? A central hub. What is Basecamp? a central hub.

He did succeed to kill google chat client to make us pay for Campfire. But it was easy PR against "evil" Google. This time it will not work.

It's not Jason Fried it's Jason AFRAID.

Because sooner than later we will see plug-ins that enable distributed project management.

As these guys say, we don't need a centralized hub for social network. We also don't need one for projects (Basecamp).

It's the Campfire story again: Than he had an echo against "evil" Google. but what can he say to a few nice guys going open source? If Mr. Fried didn't roll his campaign against google free chat client, we would have a free one instead of paying for campfire. BUT HE WILL USE HIS ALLEGED "GREATER GOOD" VOICE TO ELIMINATE ANY COMPETITION.

bad name

I do. But in hind sight I can't remember MS takes a 30% cut from the app developers selling their own apps.

why all this hate? maybe they are trying to comply with standards, maybe it will help, maybe we will not have to work twice to align the f CSS on IE? At least this is their formal goal and these are very good news.

SQL and Objects are a problem in the first place. SQL is optimized when working with sets. So unless simple one-record read/write, most queries should fall to direct SQL which is really easy to do in Django and in Python. And for the one-record transactions, the ORM does not really matter that much. Bottom line: SQL is an essential programming skill.