ksarw

Great write up, I enjoyed the reading the explanations for each piece and found them to be clear and quite thorough.

I did make the mistake though of clicking "+ expand source", and after seeing the (remarkable) abomination I can sympathize with ChatGPT's "SQL is not suitable for implementing large language model..." :)

I see, thanks for sharing!

I think given the cost advantage for s3 for storage, it seems almost better to pull from R2 into s3 for long-term storage (some inverse slurper).

It's good to hear though that R2 can singlehandedly match s3+cloudfront; that being said, video delivery is a bit different I'd imagine, even s3+cloudfront is finnicky with range requests etc.

I don't think Cloudflare's free egress covers video storage and retrieval

https://community.cloudflare.com/t/can-we-serve-video-with-r...

Please correct me if I am mistaken; also R2 is not a CDN, and more like s3 in terms of delivering from the edge

No issue with your comment specifically, just wondering if you know. currently using s3+cloudfront for mp4 storage+delivery, and would like to move to something better if possible.

This was super neat, really appreciate all the examples :)

by going exponential, they mean 2^x; x^2 can still be the same "size" as x

Congrats on the launch! One step closer to Jarvis.. ;)

Pushshift comes to mind: https://github.com/pushshift/api

There are a couple different clients for it on GitHub

Well, I seriously doubt it's due to incompetence.

I agree with you on that, as well as taking an ML approach. Querying the hooks and symbols directly can lead to the false positive vs spam tradeoff that TheDong is referring to elsewhere in this comment section (to be fair, so can the ML approach but its more avoidable). It is possible that the scale of it makes the minor shortcomings not so minor.

I happen to know someone in this case, and am not assuming good faith from the company by any means. I trust and respect the individual.

I'm also generally interested in the comment moderation problem myself, and have been working on it myself for some time. I guess my judgement is clouded by my hope that there is a reasonable excuse for the team(s) at Google to not have solved it by now.

Perhaps it is naive of me to think this way; if it really is as simple as "this does not affect advertising revenue" then that would be quite nearsighted of Google. And, as I mentioned earlier, I am of the opinion that quality comment sections would increase engagement (and revenue as a result), so it doesn't make sense to me.

I know they have team(s) of very smart people dedicated to solving this issue (at least at the individual level).

So assuming they care, I can think of two main reasons as to why it is not solved yet, both related to scale as Marques mentioned:

1.) Scale of the problem - It might be that they are already catching 99% of the stuff and we just see what falls through the cracks

2.) Scale of the solving - It could be that the teams and infrastructure are so large that they can't make the rapid adjustments needed compete in such an arms race

On a separate note, I imagine a higher quality comment section would increase engagement more than any "appealing" scam.

I used to watch some of Zizek's videos, though I hadn't seen the one that was linked until now. I'm no student of philosophy though, just a casual viewer so I don't think I can help much in answering your questions. I will say that he is definitely using uncommon definitions of the words "love" and "evil" as far as I can tell. As to who is this guy, I personally would recommend this video if you are trying to get a better sense of his thoughts as it is relatively clear and covers a large number of stances (the analogy at 7:15 is quite amusing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x0eyNkNpL0

On a side note, I am pleased though that you find him entertaining to watch regardless. I find it disappointing when people take speakers like Zizek too seriously; I think even if 80% of what is said is not insightful/intelligible, the occasional grain of truth can be very much worth it.

I hadn't heard of uTok before, I'll add that to my reading list as well! Sounds like they were doing something similar in style to the lyrics site Genius's attempt mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

We're committed to maintaining civil discussion, and you can get a sense of what we're on watch for by checking out our content policy: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy

The platform has no favorites, which you'll see for yourself in time.

Thanks Abishek!

I do think Netvyne addresses the need to interact with others on a website as mentioned. In fact, this particular need-gap was something we've thought about, and we do already have a live chat section built into the extension itself in order to address it.

Thanks for the invitation, I'll go a head and post a comment there!

As of now, we have a moderation portal and a team on standby to keep the site humming along. To get a sense of how decisions are made, you can see our content policy: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy

There's also an automated component that will be scaled up as time goes on; while moderation will not be fully automated in the near future, the realistic target is for a AI-assisted system that will greatly increase not only throughput but consistency/correctness as well.

There is a lot of uncertainty here that we'll have to manage moving forward. My background is in deep learning (mostly CV), and there are some parallels between these challenges. Because of this, I do believe these problems can be solved over time.

Curating civil discussion is our goal. Personally, I found the quote on dang's profile quite beautiful in putting into words a noble target that we ourselves will be working towards with our content moderation.

Just following up, we have now open-sourced the extension! https://github.com/netvyne/ext

I hadn't heard of this one before, I'll read up on it!

The Netvyne extension does have a live chat tab as well by the way; its definitely a different experience with live chat vs comments. For sites that a lot of people are on at once, like when a big platform goes down and people go to the official announcement, there could be quite a buzz.

Would the messages in these chat rooms disappear if you left and rejoined, or would you still see a full history?

Yup, cold start problem is one of our main challenges, and we'll be trying out a variety of approaches to solve it.

Actually the Netvyne extension can be used in conjunction with FB (and other social media platforms, for that matter. Netvyne is a tool/utility). The native screenshot capability of the extension is particularly useful when discussing what you see on Facebook with friends that might not otherwise have those items in their feed.

Personally, I find that the FB feed doesn't have much value. There's really not much that you have that is worth sharing with your entire friends list; sharing with specifically selected sets of friends leads to a higher quality experience in my opinion. The fact that FB still by default has you post to your entire friends list indicates that they are most likely going for maximal engagement at the cost of relevance. With regard to URL sharing specifically, most people I know would just send those links via Messenger. My hunch is that this is because there is no alternative, and that the chronological feed format for sharing URLs is superior.

I think it shares some similarities!

Netvyne has more of a focus on the leaving/reading of comments as you browse.

Dissenter is indeed one of the many predecessors!

I'm glad you share the sentiment that its worth exploring; if you do get a chance to try it out, let us know what you think/would like to see!

We'll be open sourcing the extension at 5AM Pacific Time! I'll also post an update on Twitter+LinkedIn It will be accessible at this link: https://github.com/netvyne/ext

Its true that there are ways to add comments to your site (Disqus being a pretty big one), but you still need to make the time to set it up (and maintain it). There's also the perspective of the one consuming the website content to consider.

Regarding traditional social media, Netvyne at least is not a replacement but rather a tool that can be used in conjunction. It offers reduced friction in the sense that the comment section is there from the start, rather than having to wait for someone to share the page.

The potential for abuse is indeed a big problem, that's why we've built in content moderation from the start. Based on the activity so far, it seems we've got it covered, and we'll be focusing on the other issues as mentioned in this thread, namely marketing and community. If you have any thoughts on how to approach these, I'd love to hear it!

Graffiti is not permitted and will be removed as part of the moderation insofar as it does not contribute to a civil discussion. I am aware of what happened with Dissenter, and I believe that civility is integral to the value that comments bring.

It seems you have a pretty solid grasp of our policy; its all in order to meet our goal of enabling civil discussion.

Indeed, misinformation is tough and is in my opinion the trickiest one. I actually didn't think nudity would be as difficult to moderate, but still somewhere up there. Thanks for sharing an example, a similar example did come to mind and we'll definitely have to iterate on our policy as time goes on.

Tolerance does vary across people, and I agree one-size-fits-all doesn't exist. That being said, sometimes is a sacrifice one is willing to make in order to participate as part of a broader audience.

With regards to federation, I am a bit familiar with Mastodon, which is what came to mind first. I see the main concept, but it does come at a cost; some things are better (or at least more user-friendly) when they are integrated. But I supposed as time goes on people could be willing to put in more work to customize their experiences.

Also, thanks for catching the typo, its fixed now!

Yeah this is the best configuration we could find. We'll have the full source up later tonight too, so if you have suggestions on what how to improve you can create an issue/PR here once its ready: https://github.com/netvyne/ext

I see, thanks for following up!

We did try to reduce the permissions as much as possible, but I believe at this time every permission is required by some feature. I get your point though, and I'll try to see what else we can do in this regard.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, just to be clear we don't log every visited site (or log browsing in general); the only time data is added to the database is when the user actively adds a comment/creates content.

Currently we send the URL as is; its only stored though if you are writing a comment or sharing the site with friends. I do like the hashing idea but ultimately when someone does leave a comment or share it, we do store it without hashing so later users can filer it and so on. Please let me know if I misunderstood your question!

I've thought about it some more, and have decided to open source the extension at 5AM Pacific Time. I'll also post an update on Twitter+LinkedIn

It will be accessible at this link: https://github.com/netvyne/ext

Just a heads up, this will be as-is ;) so please excuse the commit messages and disorganization.

Good question!

We'll be deleting comments on dead links; I don't think they serve much purpose since they don't show up on the main site's aggregator, nor will people likely be visiting dead links with the extension installed.

There's quite a bit of funky edge cases with URLs actually, and we'll just keep chipping away at them based on the feedback we're getting!

No, this is Netvyne ;)

Ah I see, thanks for the additional context!

I was aware of the toolbar extension scams that used to take place, but not of this particular pattern you are mentioning of hand-offs.

Credibility is indeed a hard problem, with respect to both consumers and producers. I am reminded of the VLC story [0], and based on my experiences I think you can gain trust over time by your actions (hopefully this story is a valid one).

Regarding least privilege, we have minimized the requested permissions to the best of our ability (please let me know if that's not the case). I'll be looking more into the bookmarklet idea too as another approach while trying to maintain the usability.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15372048

Unicorn? No, that's not the end goal.

We're trying to address the unmet need to be able to comment on any URL in a civil manner. This is an unmet need that has frustrated us (the Netvyne Team), and our friends circle, for quite some time. Incidentally, the tool works even better as more and more people use it.

Over time, we believe can build tools to differentiate ourselves with regard to quality of moderation. Indeed, this is the challenge that we intend to undertake head on.

Our privacy policy is here: https://netvyne.com/privacy-policy

A TL;DR is we only collect information when you actively post a comment/content, which includes the IP address of the request. We don't collect data on pages you are just visiting.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, you can also disable the extension from running on every site you visit, either via Chrome or from our very own options menu (it may result in the comment count badge no longer working).

Its already been cycled with trusted friends, and now I believe its ready for the virtuous cycle that comes with a broader audience. The value of the tool becomes more noticeable with a broader consumer base.

1.) Right now we're supporting only English; later as demand picks up we'll start supporting other languages too.

2.) It will be based on best effort, and improve over time with feedback :)

3.) Content policy is here: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy Civility is main priority; if a comment/website falls under civil discourse and was removed, the author will be able to submit an appeal. For grey areas, again it will be best effort. Mistakes will be made, we'll do our best to learn and correct ourselves fast.

4.) a/b.) The consumer has the right to discuss your website, and give feedback. Comments do not belong to the site. c) If you find misinformation, please report it using the flag button and we will promptly override it with a fact-check for the consumers to see. d) Netvyne makes no exceptions.