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kinkdr

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Is there such thing as right and wrong?

Yes.

And if so, how does one know what is right and what is wrong?

It all boils down to life and death. Right is anything that promotes life, wrong is anything that brings death.

This usually translates to right being anything that brings pleasure, while wrong anything that causes pain. After all that's how the brain is wired.

On the other hand we are social creatures and sometimes there is conflict, something that is right for the individual maybe is wrong for the community. It is widely accepted that right of the many is greater than the right of the one, and hence we have the laws.

So yes, there is right and wrong, and they are very clearly defined.

The problem that the OP has, is that most individuals in his country do what is right for themselves but wrong for the many and hence OP feels like a sucker because she/he does what is wrong for herself/himself but right for the many.

But if we go back to the roots of right and wrong, if most of the people in the community choose to do the wrong thing, then doing the right thing is not doing the right thing anymore.

Confused? Let me give you an example. Let's say we have 10 persons locked in a room. Each day we give a stick of bread to a random person. The community has decided that every day they will share the bread among all of them, as it is the best for the community(nobody will die of starvation). In this case, when you get the bread it is very clear that the right thing to do is to share it.

Now what happens if the majority of the individuals in the room, don't do the right thing, and don't share the bread when they get it, but keep it for themselves?

If a person gets the bread is it right to keep it to herself/himself or to share it?

Surprisingly the right thing to do, both for the individual and for the community, is to keep it, as the community will not really benefit if that person starves to death.

Of course, something even better would be for that person to try to convince everybody to start sharing the bread again.

The syntax is closer to Haskell than Ocaml.

Foe example types in Ocaml usually start with lower letter.

Also Elm has "Maybe", just like Haskell, instead of "option" of Ocaml.

Also in Elm, like in Haskell you would write "List Sometype", while in Ocaml it is "sometype list".

it would sound like there was some critical change to the core functionality of the language

No, I acknowledged early on, and many times, that it is a very minor thing. My only concern is that it is worrying for the future. (Using the word huge in the "huge red flag" was an exaggeration. I shouldn't have done so).

1. It confuses newbies.

Remove it from core language then. Having the prime character in my code, doesn't confuse anyone but me.

Is a language that allows Unicode characters for variable names confusing for newbies?

2. It's an easy character to miss.

Again, it is in my code.

3. It's easy to migrate away from it.

That's not an argument for removing something.

Again, my point is that is has to do with personal taste, yet Evan decided to force it to anybody who uses the language.

He could have very easily enforce it to core packages, and nobody would complain. But forcing it on my code, is worrying.

See my reply to the other thread.

1. If it is not ready for prime time, maybe we should stop promoting it?

2. React was 0.14 up to a year or so ago. The number doesn't mean anything.

early stage language

I keep hearing this excuse, and to be honest I don't like it. On one hand we want to expand the usage of Elm, and have Elm be taken seriously, on the other hand when we feel like we use the "early stage" language excuse.

I'd say reducing weird syntax is a perfectly good reason

I disagree with you on this, prohibiting the users from using the prime character has nothing to do with the language's syntax.

Yes, I am not saying it is a big thing. It's a small thing in itself, but breaking backwards compatibility for no good reason is huge red flag for the future.

I wish they would stop making changes just for the shake of change. E.g. Up until 0.17 most code examples where using the prime ' character.

With 0.18, Evan decided that using prime is bad taste, so he decided to break any code that uses it.

Sure, it is not a big change, but it means they are not respecting user's time and it is a sign of things to come.

Sorry for the rant.

Edit: I hope my reply doesn't get misunderstood. I love Elm and use it in all my side projects. I think it made wonders for introducing new people to the ML world.

Edit2: Sorry, didn't meant to make so much fuss about it. It is indeed a small thing.

The speed at which they release updates is at least impressive.

Visual Studio Code and Typescript have completely changed the way I look at MS.

Kudos to the team.

Although very fresh into the Haskell world myself, I tend to agree with the author that, when I know what I am doing, my Haskell code is usually written in less time and has less bugs.

Having said that, Time-to-Market is only partially influenced by my-code, the biggest part is the code that I don't have to write, i.e. third-party libraries.

In my Haskell adventures I am having trouble finding third-party libraries for even the most popular things, e.g. Cassandra. As far as I can tell there are two libraries, the `cassandra-cql` and the `cql-io`, the first hasn't been updated for a year now, and the second has only 3 stars, which makes me uneasy.

So, although I can see where the author is coming from, I don't think you can beat Java, Ruby, JS or Python in that sense. Unless of course your code/project doesn't have a lot of dependencies.