diyer22

MathArena uses newly released competition sets and evaluates models close to the event. They also mark models released after the competition date as potential contamination.

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A record of getting burned by a “sloppy, low-quality, and irresponsible” paper from Big Tech.

Thanks for all the great feedback! I've created a Twitter thread to discuss future development and share updates. Would love to connect with you all there:

https://x.com/diyerxx/status/1978531040068321766

Getting started on Twitter is so tough—engaging with my posts would really help me out a lot!

I believe DDN is capable of handling TTS (text-to-speech) tasks, because with the text condition, the generation space is significantly reduced.

And it's recommended to combine it with an autoregressive model (GPT) for more powerful modeling capabilities.

During neural network training, the ground truth (GT) must be known to compute the loss.

In DDN, the GT is only used to calculate the loss and guide sampling; it never becomes an input to the model.

Exactly what i think!

- The DDN single-shot generator architecture is more efficient than diffusion.

- DDN is fully end-to-end differentiable, allowing for more efficient optimization when integrated with discriminative models or reinforcement learning.

- Moreover, DDN inherently avoids mode collapse.

These points are all mentioned in the blog: https://github.com/Discrete-Distribution-Networks/Discrete-D...

Thanks for the idea, but DDN and flow can’t be flipped into each other that easily.

1. DDN doesn’t need to be invertible. 2. Its latent is discrete, not continuous. 3. As far as I know, flow keeps input and output the same size so it can compute log|detJ|. DDN’s latent is 1-D and discrete, so that condition fails. 4. To me, “hierarchical many-shot generation + split-and-prune” is simpler and more general than “invertible design + log|detJ|.” 5. Your design seems to have abandoned the characteristics of DDN. (ZSCG, 1D tree latent, lossy compression)

The two designs start from different premises and are built differently. Your proposal would change so much that whatever came out wouldn’t be DDN any more.

It does seem that way — we’re both trying to overcome the limitations imposed by LLM tokenization to achieve a truly end-to-end model.

And, their work is far more polished; I’ve only put together a quick GPT+DDN proof-of-concept.

Thank you for sharing.

Yes, there is a transform that make final size of stem features remains unchanged

Even in the earliest stages of the DDN concept, we had already decided to pass features down to the next layer.

I never even ran an ablation that disabled the stem features; I assume the network would still train without them, but since the previous layer has already computed the features, it would be wasteful not to reuse them. Retaining the stem features also lets DDN adopt the more efficient single-shot-generator architecture.

Another deeper reason is that, unlike diffusion models, DDN does not need the Markov-chain property between adjacent layers.

It's just a coincidence—the guided images used for ZSCG all come from Celeb-A, whereas the DDN model was trained only on FFHQ.

Besides, I feel the red shoulder strap/blob is reconstructed rather poorly.

This understanding is incorrect. The video samples all the leaf nodes of the entire tree only to visualize the distribution in latent space. In normal use, only the L outputs along a single path are generated.

1x1 convolution is the most lightweight operator for transforming features into outputs.

3x3 convolution is the most common operator used to provide basic computational power.

I understand that by "discrete number" you mean the selected output of each layer.

Both the "feature" and the "selected output" are designed to be passed to the next layer.

That's right! The second paragraph on OPTIMIZATION WITH SPLIT-AND-PRUNE in the original paper:

Inspired by the theory of *evolution and genetic algorithms*, we propose the Split-and-Prune algorithm to address the above issues, as outlined in algorithm 1.

I agree with @ActivePattern and thank you for your help in answering.

Supplement for @f_devd:

During training, the K outputs share the stem feature from the NN blocks, so generating the K outputs costs only a small amount of extra computation. After L2-distance sampling, discarding the other K-1 outputs therefore incurs a negligible cost and is not comparable to discarding K-1 MoE experts (which would be very expensive).

In DDN, 1×1 convolutions are used only in the output layers of the Discrete Distribution Layer (DDL). The NN blocks between DDLs, which supply the fundamental computational power and parameter count, adopt standard 3×3 convolutions.

We provide the source code and weights along with a Docker environment to facilitate reproducing the experimental results. The original paper’s EXPERIMENTS section mentions the hardware configuration (8× RTX 2080 Ti).

Exactly! The paragraph on Efficient Data Compression Capability in the original paper also highlights:

To our knowledge, Taiji-DDN is the first generative model capable of directly transforming data into a semantically meaningful binary string which represents a leaf node on a balanced binary tree.

This property excites me just as much.

Thank you very much for your interest.

1. The comparison with GANs and the issue of mode collapse are addressed in Q2 at the end of the blog: https://github.com/Discrete-Distribution-Networks/Discrete-D...

2. Regarding scalability, please see “Future Research Directions” in the same blog: https://github.com/Discrete-Distribution-Networks/Discrete-D...

3. Answers or relevant explanations to any other questions can be found directly in the original paper (https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.00036), so I won’t restate them here.

I believe it is the novelty. Here I would like to quote Reviewer r4YK’s original words:

Many high rated papers would have been done by someone else if their authors never published them or were rejected. However, if this paper is not published, it is not likely that anyone would come up with this approach. This is real publication value. I am reminding again the original diffusion paper from 2015 (Sohl-Dickstein) that was almost not noticed for 5 years. Had it not been published, would we have had the amazing generative models we have today?

Cite from: https://openreview.net/forum?id=xNsIfzlefG&noteId=Dl4bXmujh1

Besides, we compared DDN with other approaches in the Table 1 of original paper, including VQ-VAE.

Thank you for your appreciation. I will update the future work on both GitHub and Twitter.

https://github.com/DIYer22 https://x.com/diyerxx

I believe DDN is exceptionally well-suited to the “generative models for discriminative tasks” paradigm for object detection.

Much like DiffusionDet, which applies diffusion models to detection, DDN can adopt the same philosophy. I expect DDN to offer several advantages over diffusion-based approaches: - Single forward pass to obtain results, no iterative denoising required. - If multiple samples are needed (e.g., for uncertainty estimation), DDN can directly produce multiple outputs in one forward pass. - Easy to impose constraints during generation due to DDN's Zero-Shot Conditional Generation capability. - DDN supports more efficient end-to-end optimization, thus more suitable for integration with discriminative models and reinforcement learning.

No, DDN and VQ-VAE are clearly different.

Similarities: - Both map data to a discrete latent space.

Differences: - VQ-VAE needs an external prior over code indices (e.g. PixelCNN or a hierarchical prior) to model distribution. DDN builds its own hierarchical discrete distribution and can even act as the prior for a VQ-VAE-like system. - DDN’s K outputs are features that change with the input; VQ-VAE’s codebook is a set of independent parameters (embeddings) that remain fixed regardless of the input. - VQ-VAE produces a 2-D grid of code indices; DDN yields a 1-D/tree-structured latent. - VQ-VAE needs Straight-Through Estimator. - DDN supports zero-shot conditional generation.

So I’d call them complementary rather than “80 % the same.” (See the paper’s “Connections to VQ-VAE.”)

The first version of DDN was developed in less than three months, almost entirely by one person. Consequently, the experiments were preliminary and the results far from SoTA.

The current goal in research is scaling up. Here are some thoughts in blog about future directions: https://github.com/Discrete-Distribution-Networks/Discrete-D...

Yes, it's absolutely possible—just like how diffusion LLMs work, we can do the same with DDN LLMs.

I made an initial attempt to combine [DDN with GPT](https://github.com/Discrete-Distribution-Networks/Discrete-D...), aiming to remove tokenizers and let LLMs directly model binary strings. In each forward pass, the model adaptively adjusts the byte length of generated content based on generation difficulty (naturally supporting speculative sampling).