avasthe

That is pretty common in low level domains. Rust instead comes with complexity of borrowck and lifetimes management no matter how rustaceans say it is second nature.

Performance, startup time, JVM dependence, dynamic typing.

And the cult around zero information statements by Rich Hickey.

They didn't have corporate backing.

They didn't have aggressive marketing or zealous community.

They didn't have massive influx from ruby rails or javascript webshit crowds.

Rewrite it in rust is not mature reaction from rust community. It is similar to arch linux btw boys you see in Linux communities.

And GP is right, you rust folk talk as if sum types are silver bullet. And you people also talk as if rust invented sum types (though you people don't imply it).

You folks talk as if cargo is the best package management solution that exist.

You folks talk as if web of hundreds of dependencies written by enthusiastic youngsters is not a problem for a language priding itself on safety properties (the attempts like crev don't get the attention they deserve).

You folks talk like the memory management overhead of rust is not a problem for creating average CRUD webshit.

You folks talk as if rust automatically guides you towards correct programming patterns, when that is out of necessity to facilitate static memory management. The business logic is not at fault here, neither is rust.

Some folks in the rust community frequently bring virtue signalling politics into programming language related medium.

Rust is a well designed systems language and deserves appreciation for bringing Ada / Cyclone / ATS' good parts as a usable language. But the community is ruining its image.

Plaudits to all involved.

Everything is inefficient. There is a huge class of "developers" that don't understand what O(n) means, and a subset of them are vocally proud of it.

I don't disagree. But working at apple is not much better.

Most of the world doesn't run fine. The manager who was previously an accountant can't see the benefits of reliability, security or performance, and hires some straight-out-of-the-bootcamp people.

You are missing the point.

How many actually try to reproduce the results by writing corresponding code themselves? Apparently lot of papers with slightly wrong findings because code errors have passed the peer review (all of us in the SWE bubble know how often bugs occur), at least in less prestigious journals.

There is nothing wrong with mandating the code to be supplied with the paper. Because, many time code is somewhere between the experimental setup and proof / result.

Lack of type safety and design with no regards to performance.

What's sad is they only support very few selected Add Ons.

If anything, it proves how ineffective standards committees are. Similar to the standard library proposal which seems to be not yet implemented.

Still better than C++ standard people who try to cram infinite complexity into 100 layers of templates every three years for sake of adding a feature as library instead of language feature, with utter ignorance towards debug build performance, compile times and error messages. I have lost respect towards them since I read a C++ performance report and didn't see the mention of inherent STL inefficiencies.

The 'modern' people chiming in about how to "search faster" are missing an aspect of the experience that is literal and measureable, as well as partially undefineable simply because the portion of the mind and senses that is exercised is non-linear -- file that under "non-linear thinking"

I don't understand the luddite attitude towards ebooks: - you can carry them anywhere - you can search them (more important for technical books) - you can save important parts as screenshots in some other folder - they can be significantly more affordable - even those people in small cities can get them without searching in bookstores - Poor/middle-class students can easily get pirated copies - you can copy paste from them.

The resistance to ebooks instead of adaptation is weird.

In fact, because of ubiquity of smartphones, I wish there would be some sort of programming environments for these devices, that nicely reformat code to fit into the smartphone screens or even use some different representation, so that we can get something done on the go. These devices are not just for consuming Netflix content.

Tangentially related; is there no lint option (similar to use strict) in JS yet to ensure no methods / functions are dynamically called and thus allow effective dead code elimination?

$10 per month is too costly for many, we are happy with 30 GB per month 4G data which costs around $2.

This is actually true. The fake news is over the limits.

The elder generation believes some WhatsApp forwarded message so easily that WhatsApp and Facebook are political propaganda machines. Google about "Whatsapp University" meme. I honestly wish anything should not be allowed to be forwarded more than N times where N < 4. And I wouldn't care end to end encryption breaked on forwarded messages in order to fact check them.

This is why I disable background data for individual apps and keep data saver on whenever possible.

Also, browsing can be something like: - Ad blocking - Javascript disabled by default - remote fonts disabled - media eg images disabled if possible - cookies disabled by default

The first 2 are possible using UBlock Origin + Firefox on Android devices. Ad blocking is a must.

Also, you can use some local VPN app like netguard to restrict app's data usage. I don't remember whether you can specify data usage limits though. But it can prevent entire apps from accessing internet.

Then about web pages. On desktop I routinely use text browsers or simple GUI browsers because they are so fast. Even your regular browser can go a long way with JS disabled by default and ad blocking.

Go GC has some smart people working on it too.

And Go, by the virtue of having less features, has to allocate quite more. Eg: Go doesn't have lazy ranges / streams. Dynamic dispatch using interfaces has to allocate memory on heap.

Also, I expect D standard library to be optimized for Non-GC use case at least a part of it, because that's one of its use cases.

Compiler's escape analysis matters too. I'm told Go's escape analysis is not very sophisticated.

Last, it may be case of missing features in D version as a comment mentioned.

Use i.reddit.com or use a lightweight open source client like redreader or slide (for android, sure there is something for iOS)

Fine. I was too aggressive. I have to apologize.

But I still suspect there is some subtle oracle propaganda on this site. I don't mean pron is part of that though, they're an employee, and naturally defend it in many discussions, and I think that's fine. I meant to call him out to include a disclosure. The 'shilling' bit was not appropriate. To clarify, I didn't mean to call him out as a 'shill'.

You are biased because you don't like that the age of companies selling expensive development environments is over. And you jump in to defend Oracle every discussion.

I respect your knowledge and breadth of experience, but your biases are apparent.

^this is an oracle employee speaking

Everyone else puts a disclaimer on HN. You Oracle people are not special.

Edit: I know I am getting severely downvoted for this. But there are some Oracle shills around here.

Yeah I believe many programmers don't like their donations going to a non technical overpaid CEO's salary or activism instead of browser or technical projects like rust.

Yeah success can lead to all these. Especially when shareholders demand it or someone in marketing gets the idea. In general programmers don't get that much evil ideas.

Distributed schemes don't take off. Especially this one can lead to severe privacy / security loopholes. And what about people who rarely come online / have limited bandwidth?

A more realistic dream would be finding good algorithms for "webscale" search engines, that all competitors (Bing, DDG) can use such that any one of them can't have excessive advantage over the others.

Secondly, human curated directories may still have future. If I search Google for interesting links or just programming blogs on specific topic, I find lot of SEO optimized low quality content instead of deep technical content so that I often have to search through HN, reddit etc.. and sort by popularity - but searching for particular topic is difficult.

Also Hacker News: fuck Safari.

We are all talking about something between Lynx and Safari.

This.

To win over non tech people, there should be at least one "killer feature" out of the box.

In case of Google Chrome it was speed.

In case of Google search, it was quality of results.

In case of whatsapp, it was availability on all kinds of devices.

Etc..

Or enforced by organization etc.. that's different thing.

It's not about the patterns being wrong, it's about the patterns being verifiable and having a compiler that's on your side, not on the side of watching the world burn.

Yeah, but not all programs genuinely need to be multithreaded [0] that too with memory sharing, and even in a program very few data is shared. And a lot of patterns can't be verified by compiler to be amenable for static memory management. That's a tradeoff.

I am not telling rust's cognitive overhead makes it unsuitable for everything. It definitely has a place.

But unlike what a lot of people on HN tend to say, rust is not the perfect language for everything.

Languages like OCaml deserved a significant portion of hype that rust gets now. But there is no mozilla and no HackerNews spamming taskforce behind OCaml. On the positive side, all 5 companies using OCaml pay well ;)

[1] As a user, I don't want your code to exhaust all my cores, unless it is a batch job. I'd rather urge to choose better algorithms and data structures for the job and many times parallelism is just unnecessary.

These zero information statements and intellectually dishonest marketing is what keeps rust a fringe language.

it's just that you're not used to doing things properly, and Rust forces you to do things properly.

Many patterns that rustc refuses aren't inherently wrong. They are because 1) you have to aid lifetime inference and memory management unlike GC languages 2) All safe patterns can't be verified by compiler, especially if threads are involved.

The cult like mentality of rust spammers on hackernews is making many people sceptic about it. Rust is actually well designed language for what it does. But stop pretending rust is God.

PS: I am not the person you were replying to in GP. But I used his words. English is not my first language.

1) Look at the CEO salary. She was not even an engineer. The C-level executives don't harm themselves in this process, but there is no improvement because of her and she is still reaping a big salary. This also means many people are disappointed and less donations.

2) degenerate activism: all the SJW / diversity shit that Mozilla is into. I know some people here are going to defend it. But artificially trying to create diversity in an ecosystem means low quality. And a company like Mozilla which can't keep talented engineers doesn't need all this.

3) doomed web startups: Pocket, and their new VPN service which is going to be used by exactly 13 HN users.

It need not take such high salaried non-technical CEO, degenerate activism or doomed web startups to run something like Mozilla.