SonderDesign

I'm one of the founders, I exited after the acquisition and now work in VC. It's absolutely possible, the custom EPD was $40USD, we used injection molder keys, and a delrin keyframe. The remaining components for the display timing controller and the keyboard controller were dollars each at scale (excluding the TCM chip which was relatively expensive). The entire BOM cost of goods was far under $100, and was comparable to a Macbook butterfly switch keyboard module.

The entire design with Foxconn / it's customers was specifically for MOQ's of 300k units. We did beta units to 40+ countries.

The NRE for the display was also double your estimate and took around 9+ months to get finished + a few months of delays due to terrible yields on the first Mass produced units.

I'm one of the founders. The site crashed due to the traffic, we sold the technology, IP and some of the key talent joined Foxconn late last year; and scaled back our servers during the transition.

I'm a keyboard enthusiast, it started with an IMB model M and that's how the original prototypes started. The feedback regarding adopting Apple design and ergonomics was a reflection that our main strategic partner, investor, and eventually owner was Foxconn, and the customers we engaged with were B2B and set the spec.

For our Macbook projects, it was specifically a Butterfly switch spec we have to match in performance and design. I'd have loved to create a product aligned to what you're referring to, but strategically we have to achieve a MOQ of displays to be economically feasible, and our cooperation with Apple was easier to secure the 300k of displays required than trying to tackle the B2C premium keyboard consumer market.

I'm one of the founders, E Ink displays have their display drivers on their glass substrate, meaning you would have a border that on a single key display would be too significant. We went with one large display with only one driving board for the entirety of the keys. This greatly reduced the unit cost to have one large EPD than 80+ small ones.

I'm one of the founders, the first unit used a prototype EPD from E Ink Holdings, a custom display with around $500k in NRE was developed for a Macbook size keyboard module. This single large display with a magnetic mechanism operating around the footprint meant the total unit cost in COGS was significantly lower than $100USD at scale. The entire mechanism was only a few mm in height including the display. The travel and tactile profile was designed to a butterfly switch mechanism spec.

I'm one of the Founders at Sonder. We found from our test units that uses can work up to 30% faster with dynamic keyboards and had strong responses particularly from developers. The company, the intellectual property and some of the key talent was acquired by Foxconn, the current design is quite polished, as is the user interface. In regards to the cost point, it's one large display is a magnet mechanism operating within the periphery. This greatly reduced the unit cost and complexity of the design so it was scalable and comparable in price to an existing laptop keyboard module (when supply chain costs and keyboard layout revenue factored in).

We're working on that currently for an entire keyboard

www.sonderdesign.com

Sonder Design Hiring in Sydney Australia, San Francisco and Shenzhen

Www.sonderdesign.com

We have partnered with he world’s largest largest manufacturer Foxconn to create smart laptop keyboards that show any languages or shortcuts to work faster whilst still being tactile.

We are recruiting talented engineers in software, firmware and hardware.

See www.sonderdesign.com/careers for more information.

Our E Ink keyboard startup has developed timing controllers to avoid this. This is 4hz, you can get up to 20 Hz; and play videos or games on E Ink.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1tmjDDK7jY

I'm the founder of Sonder, an E Ink smart keyboard startup; I've written here previously about E Ink when we were published in WSJ regarding Apple.

E Ink is a brilliant display, but the process of manufacturing, cutting the TFT mask etc is expensive; only on mass volumes can displays costs become incredibly cheap (6" E Ink in a kindle is <$10 USD). It's the same for most displays OLED etc in small volumes are expensive; which is why the touchbar solution COGS is over $200 USD.

Therefore E Ink has a high MOQ of a few hundred thousand units, anything below that and you're priced at basically prototype costs which is why a 32" E Ink display is $2k.

Because it's a prototype, we went for existing displays and a 60% was the closest. Besides, you for your a 104 key keyboard and the price just doubled.

Can't PgUP be remapped, it's a dynamic keyboard.

It's a patented mechanism, the profile is more similar to the older macbooks but audibly sounds a little like a mech; like a topre, not like cherry blues.

We wanted to create one standard that could be used for all different layouts. Due to accents used in many Asian and European layouts, and only a few Western European nations adopting ISO (UK et al) we went for a single row enter.

We did testing with users and it's a compromise but our intention is redefine the standard, having 2 dominant standards doesn't make sense, likewise with non ergonomic design and staggered keys.

Great response, answered it for me already.

The MOQ is 300k units; we're at economies of scale but it's still a new technology. You're right on the made in China, Suzhou, Shenzhen etc. Bingo also on the third point.

Thanks for the comment, you're very right; but these two were mass production units that still preserved much of what the earlier units great. We have a few earlier Apple alps kbs you mentioned, but I'll shoot the Model F to our slack channel.

I'm one of the engineers at Sonder, if you have questions just ask!

You can only learn from critical analysis, we like a tough crowd.

The second unit is an attachable numpad that can be used as a standalone or connects magnetically.

I work mostly on the electrical side but we do interact a lot with the software devs (I can code but only in C++), it's not gospel but I think the scope for the software is an open API.

Correct, the cloud is just an option which is off as standard.

Thanks for the feedback, some interesting insights from other vim users.

P.s The E Ink display isn't in contact with the actual user, the keys are just a transmissive body for the display.

I agree with your points on ergo design, we did a survey with the thousands on community members and only like 4% would buy an ergo design which was lower than expected. It's important for us to address from a design perspective but we want to do incremental keyboard revision, otherwise consumers won't be able to adapt to the massive transition in a dynamic and ergo design.

This.

P.s I hate this comment on reddit but I couldn't help myself. The mech is also manufactured to the spec for a standard laptop spec, it should feel pretty familiar.

Appreciate the feedback, it's just an option; if the user just wants to rely on the mappings stored on flash they can.

Best analogy is like dropbox, I have files stored on my terminal, but if I want I can back it up online and download new files to my machine. It's just an option that creative design professionals constantly request so it had to be included in the scope.

Laptops have a year horizon, watch this space.

For your RSI check out keyboardio, it's a nice clean ergo design with a mech.

There is a satisfying sound to punching out code or emails on a mech switch. You stop noticing the sound but that said some colleagues who love mechs hate working with others who have them.

Me too :D

Once we ship the first laptop module and standalone, it's the planned next product (maybe with colour E Ink if E Ink Holdings has a time line for release).

It's the early unit, the new design uses a transmissive medium that projects the display imagery to the key surface.

The contrast on the new displays are much better, the spec for E readers (encarta) displays are more forgiving given the application.

Mini caps would be expensive and also not a good look as each display has an IC driver bonded to the glass substrate so you would have this large border for each key.

I totally would want to get my hands / of fingers on one before selling too.