Cookingboy

And the logical interpretation of that statement would be "if a government doesn't do things I want, it's not functioning properly".

I mean does it work? Other than profit making for the consulting companies?

Like someone else pointed out, if people are hiring them in order to provide cover for decision making, then maybe the whole thing being a charade is the point.

for American economy.

There is more to American economy than big tech.

And that's precisely why this has started: https://www.wired.com/story/super-pac-backed-by-openai-and-p...

the act of organizing and strategically disseminating the speech is not speech

It is, and the court acknowledged that editorial control is protected speech.

The ruling was made based on data privacy ground, not First Amendment Speech ground.

owever, in a great act of self-incrimination, Bytedance (de facto controlled by CCP) has decided to not divest and would rather shutdown instead.

How is it self-incrimination? That logic doesn't work.

80% of TikTok's users are outside of the U.S., why would they sell the whole thing?

And the law is written in a way that there is no value to just sell the American operation without the algorithm, they have to sell the whole thing, including the algorithm, in order for there to be a serious buyer.

It's technology highway robbery. Imagine if China told Apple "sell to us or be banned", we'd tell them to pound sand too.

I think it is about banning a propaganda

The problem of allowing government banning propaganda is it allows government to ban anything they label as propaganda. There is no law defining what's propaganda, so you just end up with the government being able to ban any information they don't like.

Imagine the government drums up for another illegal war like Iraq using fake evidence, and we ban all counter evidence as "foreign propaganda". Do you not see how dangerous that gets?

That, for me, is enough of a reason to ban it and justify it under our constitution

The Supreme Court has explicitly ruled in the past foreign propaganda is protected speech under First Amendment.

You cannot strip American citizens' rights to receive foreign propaganda if they choose to do so.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracist, I absolutely do not believe any polling number from established institutions here.

There are a bunch and they are very easy to find.

Really? Because the U.S. government, in their own court filing, have openly admitted that there is no evidence of TikTok's wrong doing in terms of manipulating information.

I don't think it gets much more authoritative than U.S. government's own court filing.

The link you provided has been debunked over and over again. It was a paid-for study aimed to generate certain conclusion.

And its methodology is silly at best, insane at worst (uses U.S. social media company as a control group for neutrality on China lmao).

If you do understand First Amendment then you should also understand that foreign propaganda is protected speech, and is not treated as yelling fire in a crowded theater:

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lamont-v-postmaster-...

It is illegal if it is paid for foreign state and undeclared.

Good. Because ByteDance has never tried to hide the fact that it's a Chinese company. So that argument wouldn't matter even if there are evidence of them pushing Chinese propaganda.

even though more targeted bans have been upheld as passing the relevant judicial tests for laws affecting First Amendment rights.

Such as?

Except it is. The Supreme Court has actually ruled that the First Amendment rights for Americans to receive foreign propaganda, even during the Cold War:

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lamont-v-postmaster-...

I don't think you know what the First Amendment is. Not only does it guarantee freedom of expression, but also freedom to receive other's expression and speech.

The U.S. government is not allowed to ban any foreign books, movies, or even propaganda.

I really wish people like you do a little bit research before making such a confident statement like that.

There research is not credible because their only "evidence" is that when using certain keywords, Instagram and YT returned more "anti-China" content than TikTok.

So instead of arguing the U.S. social media has an anti-China bias, they argued that it's the evidence of TikTok being more pro-China.

Using American social media as the control group for neutrality on China is absolutely insane.

The most likely cause is that TikTok is just a lot less political and more international than YT and Instagram.

For rest of the world, people do not automatically associate words like "Xinjiang" to "Chinese government oppression", the fact that they expect that to be the top result can be argued that American media is the one manipulating information.

There is no evidence whatsoever presented in that paid for NCRI study.

In fact, the same result can be used to interpret as "strong traces of anti-China manipulation on American social medias".

Ticktock content is curated to fit CCP’s narrative not simply an algorithmic reflection of what its users care about.

If you can show evidence of that you should give it to the U.S. government, because it has repeatedly said there is no evidence of such and any threat remains hypothetical.

No speech or information is being suppressed;

Except the whole reason for the TikTok bill is that information/speech will be under Chinese government control on TikTok and that can be weaponized.

So make up your mind, if you say TikTok is being banned for the possibility of "weaponized propaganda", then it is information being suppressed.

If you say it's not about information suppression, then you can't use the "Chinese propaganda" argument, which is used by pretty much all ban supporters.

This isn't like China where the government bans any services they can't control, and directs the services that they can control to suppress any information they don't want people talking about.

That's exactly what it is.

Deliberately misinforming people, especially under a foreign state payroll, is illegal.

First of all if you have any evidence of TikTok engaging in it, you should present it since even our government have said there is no such evidence and that possibility remains hypothetical.

Secondly no, it's not illegal to spread misinformation, no matter the motive. The First Amendment absolutely guarantees that right.

Holy shit do you actually work for the U.S. State Department?

Reuter reported this: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covi...

U.S. social media absolutely are controlled by the U.S. government, and we can, and have been able to get any user data we want from them.

Removing the platform entirely is not censorship. Especially when everyone will just shift to Instagram, Youtube etc.

It is, because politicians voted for the bill have openly admitted the Israel-Gaza content is what pushed them to vote for the ban. Instagram, YT, etc are under U.S. control and engage in sufficient self-censorship when it comes the Israel-Gaza conflict in order to make Israel look good.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-...

multitude of copy cat apps for their freedom of speech.

Except they can't. All of the other apps are under U.S. government control and have engaged in severe censorship on certain topics such as the Israel-Gaza conflict.

Even the politicians who voted for the bill have openly admitted that making Israel looking bad is the reason they are banning TikTok.

This ban effort regained momentum after October 7th, 2023: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-...

A better example would be that reciprocity would say that if China mistreated our civilians then we should mistreat theirs.

Good example, and thank god that is unconstitutional.

For example China can arrest American citizens in China without dual process. But we cannot arrest Chinese citizens, or anyone here in the U.S. and just put them to prison without dual process.

Americans in China have no freedom of speech. Should we ban Chinese citizens in the U.S. from speaking freely as well? Again, that is unconstitutional. U.S. constitution protects anyone within the U.S. not just U.S. citizens. Otherwise we can just send someone with a green card to jail without trial.

So your example only serves the counter-argument, which is that reciprocity is not something you should aim for when it comes to human rights.

which is in turn used to spread CCP propaganda.

Since not even the U.S. government has been able to provide any such evidence, and have admitted that the threat is hypothetical, if you have any such evidence you should present it.

As far as net worth figure goes your health is the first significant digit, everything else come after.

live in the countryside, or have not been to Japan for 10+ years.

I lived in a suburb city near Nagoya from end of 2022 to beginning of 2024. It's not Tokyo, but definitely not an "inaka" either. We got our Aeon Malls and even a Porsche dealer lol.

People don't realize how technologically incompetent Japan is. Fax machines are still the norm for day to day business in most places, and online banking is seen as a cutting edge feature.

Hell, until very recently most non-combini ATM machines in Japan have limited business hours (like WTF do ATMs stop working on the weekends???), and buying online concert tickets means you buy it online, then go to the local 7/11 and print it out in paper form. The rest of the world has long since moved to E-sign and the average Japanese person is still expected to use a personal seal for business dealing.

It's like Japan took a very weird turn on their tech-tree in the late 80s and went off a deep end and invested all the points in toilets.

My toilet was smarter than Siri and could sing to me but god forbid if I wanted to pay my rent online lol.

Your entire argument is based off the propagandized idea that "China is our mortal enemy".

Should we cut off all tourism/business travel between China and the Wests? Cease all commercial activities? Declare war? Wait we should ask China to close the 9000 Starbucks in their country first.

Your opinion, while fairly popular amongst propagandized Americans, is not supported by hard facts..

And your argument of "all Chinese nationals could be spies means all Chinese nationals are working as spies" is absolutely illogical.

This is why I think generative AI tech should either be banned or be completely open sourced. Mega tech corporations are plenty of things already, they don't need to be the morality police for our society too.

If that's true, then it's kinda gross tbh.

What's their advice to Neumann this time?

"I hope you are more discreet this time so your scam lasts long enough for us to exit"???

China is very anti-Israel

That's just completely false. China and Israel has always had a decently warm relationship, so much so Israel was selling weapons to China until the U.S. forced them to stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Israel_relations...

The Israel-Palestine conflict is one place where they have disagreement, but overall the two countries are on friendly terms.

And you do know Voice of America is an U.S. government funded propaganda outlet right?

Man I really wonder if anyone working at DJI ever imagined one day the internet would be filled with footages of Russian main battle tanks being blown up by the toys they built.

Dude you need to stop getting news from dedicated clickbait and propaganda YT channels...Those are embarrassing.