BanterTrouble

That don't directly take control away from me.

I am specifically talking about things that take over control of the vehicle.

I've had lane assist fight me when trying to move lanes. I apparently wasn't turning the wheel enough and it thought I was drifting (I wasn't).

I've had another hire car refuse to move backwards without me putting it into reverse. It had anti-rollback measures. I didn't know what was going on. All my other cars would rollback (I drive manuals). Now I know technically you shouldn't coast backwards but it was maybe a foot.

Oh, certainly! But it needn't be exclusive. (And "teach people better" is a lot harder than running a wire to a $30 camera.)

But earlier you were pretending that it was the case. Interesting.

Do you not remember?

I'm glad I can both survive a rear-end crash and being reversed over by someone driving a Hummer with a six foot high blind spot in the back. I don't have to pick one improvement, which is great.

Are you saying the mandated camera doesn't stop someone from reversing over you or that the hummer doesn't have the camera, but won't kill you because the camera is mandated by law in other vehicles?

I am not sure what to make of this statement.

Yes, they should.

So you accept that better driving training would be better.

If you find out a way to retrain everyone on the road more cost-effectively than a $30 backup camera, do implement it. (Don't forget figuring out how to get people to maintain those skills.)

As time goes on, older people stop driving either they stop driving (they realise they are too old to drive) or they die.

If you implement better driver training. Then newer driver have to do that training. So over the overall minimum standard improves.

A $30 camera is something that doesn't improve the overall minimum driving standard. It is a band-aid over a bigger problem.

Until then, I'm glad my car has some safety features that protect me when I get rear-ended in stopped traffic by someone who wasn't paying attention.

Crumple zones have been standard in cars for like 30 years now. That rear camera isn't going to help you.

Is a backup camera not a way "of mitigating the risk" when reversing?

You knew I was referring to other methods mitigation the risk and decided to get a quick jab in at me. That was disingenuous. I don't appreciate it.

Which is easier, installing them in new vehicles, or making a billion drivers undertake remedial training in basic safety?

Driver awareness can be done through other means than re-training.

If you say so. I've gotten angry on here, but it takes a lot more than someone who thinks they can see through their bumper.

I never said that and obviously don't believe that. Funny how at the start of this reply you were pretending you weren't engaging in that behaviour. I wouldn't bother replying, you won't get another one.

Probably should have had better driver training ;-)

You still don't need a sensor built into the vehicle to check it. A tyre pressure gauge you can buy on amazon for £5.

Oh, well, if it's that easy!

They have been mandating that in most UK countries for decades and it is definitely one of the reasons why roads are safer now.

Some of whom still don't know how to tie a shoelace reliably

Your true colours finally show. All the people are too stupid to learn how to do anything. BTW this is called the "Bigotry of low expectations".

Yes, like a backup camera.

Well you've just twisted what I said because you are getting angry. So we will leave it there.

The more you try to force this stuff. The more of reaction in the opposite direction you will get.

Don't patronise me. You've done it twice now. I find it extremely irritating.

The point being made is that many of these things can be mitigated by better driver training or driver aids which are much simpler & cheaper (I am likely to fit parking sensors in my older cars, kits are cheap).

The point being made is that there are ways of mitigating the risk. That for some reason you are other people don't believe can be done at all. This is patently false.

Also just because there is a camera and a screen doesn't mean people will look!

It does seem everything is over-engineered or under-engineered and cannot be taken apart. The Electrical stuff I mentioned because I was working on it over the weekend.

I had a flippant stupid reply. So they got a stupid flippant response.

Typically when you are reversing and there is likely to be something sat behind your vehicle (like a child or a pet). You are parked. You can you know look before you get in the car.

If you have parking sensors it will alert you to something walking behind you anyway.

The point being made is there are way to deal with this without the need for a rear camera.

I live in the UK.

It isn't unheard of that business will collude with government to "pull the ladder up behind them". I've worked in companies where that has been their stated strategy.

Do you believe, that I believed that I could see through the bumper?

Deliberately re-framing an argument to force me to accept a conclusion, while misinterpreting what I said is disingenuous.

I've read several of your replies towards me and I can tell that you either unable or unwilling see my point of view. So there is no point in having a discussion with you.

You can also turn your body a bit as well.

Mandating driving aids (that often don't work properly) won't fix this problem either.

What does increase safety is better driver training. This has be ubiquitously proven BTW.

Nobody says it is a secret cabal. It is very frustrating when people misstate other people's beliefs

There are politicians and activists that have been pushing for lower car ownership and they do it openly. Motivations for this vary.

There is an old and tired cabal of manufacturers wanting to generate a moat and push prices up high.

Two things can be true at once.

I had to replace the full wiper system on what is a project vehicle (which I intend to daily once it is all fixed). It took me several months to get the wiper system all working again.

The main problem I ran into was

- Parts that were marked as compatible that were absolute rubbish. You would there is little difference between one brand of wiper arm and another. Apparently not!

- It takes 2 days to order a part from the internet. The nearest part supplier is a 30-40 mile drive. So if you forget to order a part you are either waiting another 2 days or you have a 2 hour drive.

As a result. I ended up rebuying all the parts about 2 times and I should have gone to a local parts dealer where they give you either Genuine, OEM or quality aftermarket. The thing is that I compared the genuine parts that did work with the ones I bought from ebay and visually there is little difference. So now I only buy Genuine, OEM or quality aftermarket.

It is all part of the learning experience. Even though at the time it was frustrating.

That isn't true. You are overstating the problem. I've built a custom fixed gear. I have 3 custom tools. They cost me £45 all together.

My current toolbox for the car is:

- Socket set (£50 halfords)

- Spanners (I already had these I guess £20-30)

- Allen Keys (£5)

- Several different types of Cir-clip pliers (£20-40)

- A battery powered soldering iron (£50-100). I have no mains power where I work on the vehicle.

- A lighter (£1)

- Mole-grips (£10-15)

- Axel Stands (£50)

- A Jack. (£100)

- Fuse Pullers (£3)

- Tub of Grease / Copper Grease (£15)

- Toolbox (£10)

- Stubby Screwdrivers (£10)

Anything that takes control away from me I am not interested in. I am both legally and financially liable for anything the car does. I am also not trusting my life to some poorly maintained software written by someone in another country.

The tyre pressure sensor you can make an argument to be required by law as uneven tyre pressures can negatively effect handling.

However the backup camera being required by law is absolutely ridiculous. You can just either use the mirrors or turn your head.

They are describing "marginal gains theory". Lots of small improvements to something add up to a larger more tangible improvement.

With the prices of sensors, I was astonished and I thought the garage was having me on. I looked up the prices online and the garage weren't taking the mickey (it was withing 10-15% of what they quoted me).

I am still a somewhat of a novice.

Your friend is right IMO. Do something simple first. Like a broken piece of trim, replace a light bulb, change the wiper blades yourself and build yourself up. I had repaired bicycles/motorcycles before hand.

Past that. I literally go on YouTube and watch someone do the task I intend on doing. I have the service manual downloaded for the car (people dump scans of the manuals online as PDFs) and a Haynes Manual (about £20).

Over the last 6 months. I've gone from barely being able to change the wiper blades to replacing a turbo.

I bought an older vehicle(s) that have a good aftermarket parts market and are known to be easy to work on. The simpler / less refined the car is the easier it is to work on.

I will watch tonight. I used to live in Spain. Buying a vehicle there is weird.

Yep. There a bunch of minor issues with my vehicle that I was procrastinating on, but the brakes lights not working is very illegal and unsafe, so that had to be fixed before I drove it. Was really pleased once I realised what the issue and managed to fix it.

All the newer cars feel like iPods with wheels and the driving experience is horrible. I am not interested in them.

I live in the UK. Cars aren't that cheap (at least for something half decent), labour costs are dependant on what is being done. While the roads do get salted, rust is more dependant on the vehicle model. Also there are preventative measures you can take that aren't that expensive again rust.

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated.

The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand.

e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what you would find in a door bell and finding faults is normally just tracing wires and using a multi-meter. I had issues with the brake lights / reverse lights not working, the issue turned out that the spade like connector in the fuse box was pushed through and was making partial contact. Price to fix this was £0.

EDIT: Just remembered this isn't accurate. I had to buy a new reverse light. The entire reverse light assembly was ~£20. So the price to fix was about £20. The light assembly itself was like a big bicycle light.

My newer car needs a OB-II scanner to diagnose anything with a phone app. While this is arguably quicker it can be misleading. Sometimes it will be telling you that something is malfunctioning but it is really the sensor itself. These sensors are £200-£300 a piece. Replacing 4 glow plug sensors cost me £800. I was paying essentially to make the "you must service your engine" light to go away. There was nothing wrong with engine itself.