‘Sea Slaves’: The human misery that feeds pets and livestock

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/world/outlaw-ocean-thailand-fishing-sea-slaves-pets.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

by lkurtz • 11 years ago

236 84 11 years ago

nytimes.com

mcantelon• 11 years ago

It's sad how little attention contemporary slavery gets versus historical examples of slavery. It would be great if Hollywood made a movie about this (or slavery in the middle east committed by Western allies).

jrochkind12• 11 years ago

Or slavery in the United States. Yep.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicagarrison/the-new-american-sla...

marknutter2• 11 years ago

That's not slavery, it's kidnapping, plain and simple. It's illegal and not condoned in any way by the U.S. government or society at large, so comparing it to slavery is a bit hyperbolic. But yes, it still sucks

bilbo0s4• 11 years ago

Yeah...

You haven't had the misfortune of having to witness REAL slavery. Real slavery is going on a walk outside the embassy and seeing a 6 year old domestic girl given a LEGAL black eye by the fist of her mistress. And there is nothing you can do about it.

That's when I learned... if you can call the police or get the authorities to intervene... then it's not slavery.

Slavery has got to be the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. Worse than combat even. Because there is nothing you can do. It's just in your face. This was way back in the early 90's... and I still remember the girl look up at me afterwards... a few seconds went by... and a trickle of blood started to come from her nose.

Yeah...

I just went back to the embassy. Certain parts of Africa back then were just not tourist spots.

paulannesley• 11 years ago

The Whistleblower (2010 film) is one example of a film about one of the many forms of modern slavery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whistleblower

zo12• 11 years ago

Not to be confused (as I was) with the 1986 film with almost the identical name:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whistle_Blower

vs the one you speak of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whistleblower

logfromblammo2• 11 years ago

I don't know how anyone can read an article like this and still think seasteading can create a libertarian utopia.

dropit_sphere2• 11 years ago

Oh, why not. I have time.

I don't think the seasteaders contend that there is something magic about being alone on the ocean that makes a good society. So in that sense, seasteading would not "create" anything.

Rather, their idea is that the same freedom and informality that allows definitely-horrible things like this, would also allow for controversially horrible things, like libertarian policies.

Not the sword but the wielder, etc.

logfromblammo2• 11 years ago

The people dreaming up the seasteading plans imagine self-sustaining, seaworthy rafts populated by like-minded individuals. They are, typically, the sort of person who has a rather positive opinion of human nature, and imagine that most other people are at least a tiny bit rational and ethical.

They are not just ignoring, but never even considering, those people who already live "free" on the high seas: pirates, human traffickers, poachers of protected fisheries, smugglers, toxic waste dumpers, and the generally unsavory characters who are largely invisible to the rest of the world.

Any seastead will eventually encounter those people, who are already out there, on their reefers and other largely obsoleted vessels. They do not subscribe to the non-aggression principle (NAP), and are often very skilled at concealing their unethical behavior from observers. I have never seen this issue seriously addressed by any NAP-libertarian.

What do you do when a ship pulls up to your seastead's floating dock, and you see an unhappy man bolted to the deck with a neck chain? If the raft next door runs a brothel, how do you really know that none of the employees have been coerced into working there? If a factory-mothership offers to sell you its by-catch, should you worry about where it came from? Could a group of armed "guests" take control of your floating home? What do you do when your fish farm gets poached? Will you always know where the line between non-interference and complicity lies? If you make any wrong decisions, you may die, or attract the future ire of someone better armed than you.

The key concept is that people who have better reasons for evading the laws of nation-states--typically prison or execution--are already out there. Furthermore, you can't positively identify them or their motives, nor can you avoid dealing with them in the long run. And if you establish a system that deals with them (and naturally, the traditional seasteader's bogeyman of a state-owned navy vessel) acceptably, how do you prevent that from turning into a government? And if those guys are already out there thumbing their noses at the law, why bother with the complicated engineering projects? Just buy an old reefer and take it out beyond the territorial limit, and you're done.

It all makes me think that seasteading is a way to scam people afraid of losing some of their money into actually losing most of their money. If the promoters weren't out to sell speculative floating concrete boxes to credulous suckers, they could be actually operating one of those motherships, supplying and trading with people who live in international waters, on their existing convenience-flagged vessels. Why aren't they?

IndianAstronaut• 11 years ago

Thailand is a huge culprit here and they get away with it because they managed to sandwich themselves as valuable allies to the west.

I do wonder if there is any sort of image parsing and other analysis we can do on the oceans to spot these slave vessels.

anon84182• 11 years ago

Having traveled to Thailand I was pretty shocked at how open(ly exploitive) and shameless the sex trade there is.

I've always wondered why the Thai government and King are okay with condoning the massive sex tourism industry there (the majority of which is built to serve foreigners... which stands in contrast to the sex industries in other Asian countries). Don't they know that in the western world, Thais are at the butt of all the stereotypical sucky-sucky-me-so-horny jokes?

I find it unbelievably demeaning culturally... and it seems so contradictory to the otherwise prideful Thai culture...

Any local Thais care to comment?

jpatokal• 11 years ago

Thailand's sex industry is indeed massive, but the vast majority of it caters to Thais; the bits that target Westerners -- a few dozen gogo bars in a country of 67 million -- just happen to have a much higher profile. Essentially all the women working in it are there of their own free will, if almost always because of economic hardship. (Typical scenario: Poor rural girl gets pregnant, boy disappears/dies in traffic accident. Girl can't support child and herself with farm labor or factory work, so she leaves the kid with grandparents and goes off to Pattaya.)

And oh: the "me so horny" line comes from Full Metal Jacket, a Vietnam war movie.

j_lev• 11 years ago

I'm struggling to take seriously any article from the NYT that is supposed to invoke outrage since I got duped by that recent nail salon article.

rattray• 11 years ago

What was the tldr of the nail salon dupe?

kneisley• 11 years ago

Former NYT columnist Richard Bernstein laid down several research failures in Nir's original piece. I haven't read enough to agree with the assertion that it is duplicitous, but the refutation is compelling. http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2015/jul/25/nail-salons...

anti-shill• 11 years ago

we had better allow them to come over here to the USA.

Right?

S4M• 11 years ago

Each time I read a sad story like that in the comfort of my flat, I wonder: what can I do to help them? Then, I can't think of anything, and my mind tries to forget this cruelty being inflicted to others, and I move on with my life...

andreasvc• 11 years ago

I wonder the same thing. I think it boils down to donating to charity that helps people like this, and voting with your wallet by not buying products that are involved in this.

asciimo• 11 years ago

You may not be able to directly help those currently enslaved by this system. But you can stop consuming the products that it produces, and encourage your friends and family to stop consuming these products.

nzp• 11 years ago

For starters you can do what others suggested: don't buy products produced by this kind of labour. Then, you might take the time to ponder the causes of such things happening in the first place. I'll give a hint: it's capitalism, and the reason you don't see exploitation to such an extent in the West is because of the (very bloody) struggles workers waged here during the past two centuries. Then it's up to you what to do with that realization.

gcb0• 11 years ago

   > "Mars moved to solution A"

   > "Nestle says they are doing all they can (mentions nothing)".

why people still consume nestle? is it because their (free to collect) water is cheaper?

rectangletangle• 11 years ago

A lot of this is similar to the fishing industry in US, long exhausting shifts, dangerous slippery conditions, and cramped noisy sleeping quarters. The issue with minor cuts leading to infection is also persistent; "gurry" (misc fish parts) and salt water get under your gloves. There're even "mother ships," though they're referred to as tenders.

Of course this is all voluntary, and the pay is much better. There're also environmental regulations, prohibiting unsustainable fishing practices.

marincounty• 11 years ago

"Bar codes on pet food in some European countries enable far-flung consumers to track Thai-exported seafood to its onshore processing facilities, where it was canned or otherwise packaged."

I'd be one of those far-flung consumers if I was given the choice? I will read tuna cans more carefully.

brc2• 11 years ago

Two things that would improve the plight of these people:

1) fish origin labelling - which has massive benefits of other types. Currently there just isn't enough 'look through' to enable consumers to determine the source of seafood products.

2) a more developed economy in Cambodia and other places, so that nobody turns to people smugglers in desperation.

phantom_oracle• 11 years ago

I know the media likes to paint a bleak picture of the world cause that is what drives clicks to their sites and keeps their ad businesses rolling, but ...

Doesn't it feel like the world has constantly been in this constant state of extreme suffering and extreme joy both co-existing in the modern era of humanity?

For all the talk of progress a country may paint, they are either engaging in oppressive tactics locally or abroad.

This seems to apply to a vast majority of countries throughout the world.

I don't like to blame an ideology for humanities woes, because it is just that: an ideology.

It does however seem that this unfettered capitalism has churned a greed so strong that those in power will do anything to keep their money-machines rolling.

Eg.

- Oil spills that indefinitely damage ocean-life for decades,centuries ...

- Women and Child-trafficking to keep the prostitution industry going

- Drug-smuggling, human-smuggling and all other types of smuggling to keep those industries going

It almost feels like it never got worse, it just got more exposure and that its always been there, in the dark corners where we are scared to look, because we'd much rather shelter our lives with a quasi-happiness that ignores such an extreme-suffering of our fellow man/woman/child.

I blame us all, starting with myself.

wamsachel• 11 years ago

It almost feels like it never got worse, it just got more exposure and that its always been there,

It's harrowing that the 20th century was labeled a century of genocide, when in reality it was the century that started exposing and denouncing it.

AnimalMuppet• 11 years ago

Also the century that perfected and industrialized it.

But yes, the exposure and outrage and "never again" is legitimately progress...

ptaipale3• 11 years ago

You really should read the recent report on the Millenium development project and how its goals have been reached.

http://mdgs.un.org/unsd/mdg/Resources/Static/Products/Progre...

The media paints a black picture because that sells clicks, but in fact, the world is now a much better place than it has ever been. Despite population growth, fewer and fewer people live in extreme poverty. More and more children have access to education. Child mortality is down. More people have access to clean water. And, outside that report, wars kill fewer people than before.

I don't think capitalism is "unfettered", but the access to global market economy has been a factor in bringing this development throughout the world, particularly in China and India, which used to have huge numbers of extremely poor people.

brc2• 11 years ago

You've got the wrong suspect, chief.

All these things and worse happen under totalitarian governments with planned economies.

It's human nature that is the problem - some people would rather enslave than liberate.

rynprkr9• 11 years ago

It's very sad that Lang Long had to go through all the brutal hardship, and it is overwhelmingly tragic for him and his sisters to be in such a horrible misfortune. I came to the U.S. around the age of ten and worked as a night-shift cleaner for parking lots, cleaning up people's feces and urine on the floor of a business complex, getting hit by maggot filled trash bags when trying to pack them into dumpsters, grocery store / restaurant cashier and sweeper, and suffered from depression after parents got divorced, and later in life was devastated after my father committed suicide, in several occasions planned out in detail my own suicide but was too scared to go through with it, but whenever I read articles like these I feel that what I went through was nothing.

Although I'm buried in debt now, I'm glad I had the opportunity to go through university and study the sciences which guided me in taking the proper direction in life - the U.S. is definitely one of those few places in the world where opportunities are far more accessible.

My initial reaction to these types of articles is filled with empathy and sorrow and hope that people like Lang Long will have better future, but to be honest and be for real, in certain aspects, and in current era, we depend (in many cases we're not even aware of it) on the labors of people around the world in unfortunate circumstances so that we can benefit from them - the ugly side of this is... that the world is... an unforgiving place - there's gotta be someone out there doing the dirty work for someone else, I'd imagine that even the sea-slave traffickers themselves are trying to survive no different than Lang Long is, albeit in this particular case, they're brutal and inhumane.

I hope for a day when all slaves are treated humanely or slavery completely abolished, and for the day humanoid machines or drones will take the place of humans (in more efficient way) in back-breaking work so that criminals like the traffickers will have less incentives to kidnap and put vulnerable people into inhumane slavery.

chaostheory2• 11 years ago

I imagine this is why organizations like these exist

http://kiva.org/

http://watsi.org/

Microloans and micro donations really improve lives in the 3rd world.

jhaglund• 11 years ago

Except that's not really true.

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-05-30/new-research...

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/01/do-microloans-really-...

anonmeow• 11 years ago

the ugly side of this is... that the world is... an unforgiving place - there's gotta be someone out there doing the dirty work for someone else

Much uglier side is that our stupid culture hinders automation of human labor. We could automate 90% of physical labor with previous decade's technology if it were a political agenda (meaning will to optimize lifestyle around machine labor thus ditching expectations of interacting with retail and salesman employees when buying products etc). It's just that overwhelming majority of people are ok with current state of things as they are either because they have won the lottery of being in 1st world and with money or because they work like biorobots in the rest of the world and don't have time to think.

tzs• 11 years ago

The story, and other stories linked in some of the comments, concern terrible things that happen to people in poor countries involved in producing things for rich countries.

If those stories have not sufficiently depressed you, take a look at what happens to much of our stuff when we are done with it, and much of it ends up back in poor countries for salvage.

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/21/132204954/after-dump-what-happ...

http://news.discovery.com/tech/indias-poor-risk-slow-death-r...

‘Sea Slaves’: The human misery that feeds pets and livestock

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