37% of people commute by bike in Copenhagen thanks to this infrastructure

http://www.streetfilms.org/copenhagen%E2%80%99s-climate-friendly-bike-friendly-streets/

by MikeCapone • 17 years ago

88 74 17 years ago

San• 17 years ago

Nice cycling lanes and impressive statistics, but I don't get the impression that bicycles are as ubiquitous (yet) as they are in Amsterdam.

I wonder how they handle bicycle parking in Copenhagen, because that's a real problem in most Dutch cities. Especially those cargo bikes take a lot of space.

kqr2• 17 years ago

This is a great photo essay on bicycles in Amsterdam:

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/

gjm11• 17 years ago

It's a bit weird how the short description of just about every photo ends with "... on a bicycle, in Amsterdam" or some close equivalent. Either the author is just completely freaked out that all these things happen OMG ON A BICYCLE IN FREAKING AMSTERDAM, or it's some sort of attempt at SEO, hoping that Google will place this page really highly for people searching for <<<bicycle amsterdam>>>.

If it's the latter then it seems to have worked; the page is the top organic Google result for those words, at least for me at the moment. I do hope that isn't because of the clunkily repetititititive writing style.

Retric• 17 years ago

Bikes take up less space than cars. So parking garages for bikes should be far less expensive to build.

thirdusername• 17 years ago

Stealing an image from the other person replying to you it pretty much looks just like this: http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/pm3s_amsterdam_bi... in many places. Block after block with bicycles although there is room on the sidewalk for people to at least in the parts I've been in.

The most frustrating thing about Copenhagen is all the bicycle repair shops take up the business locations that should be small food places. :P

gwright• 17 years ago

I'll bet the 200% tax on car purchases helps to encourage bike commuting: <http://wallstreetpit.com/12684-denmarks-200-pecent-car-tax-c...;

mseebach6• 17 years ago

Indeed. And the result is that our car-fleet is one of the oldest, least environmentally friendly and least safe in western Europe.

houseabsolute2• 17 years ago

Unintended consequences. :(

jimmybot• 17 years ago

Sounds like relying more on a gas tax would have been the better way to go. Distortionary taxes really need to be careful they are distortionary in the desired way.

ZeroGravitas• 17 years ago

Has anyone (without an agenda) actually run the numbers on whether having a smaller number of older cars is actually less environmentally friendly than having a larger number of more regularly renewed cars with more modern engines (and more scrapped cars)?

I can easily get behind encouraging people to replace 10 year-old central heating boilers with more efficient models, for cars it seemed more like a bizarre industry specific subsidy.

henrikschroder2• 17 years ago

Copenhagen is a completely flat city which also encourages biking, but yeah, the car tax is probably the biggest reason.

nraynaud2• 17 years ago

Mainz, Duisburg (Germany), Oslo, Trondheim (Norway) are not flat cities, but you see bikes everywhere anyways. It's a cultural problem, not a geographic problem.

grk3• 17 years ago

It's not really that flat. When the trip is >5km, all those little hills really add up.

ams61102• 17 years ago

The $10/gal gasoline is probably a close second.

godDLL• 17 years ago

Israel has a similar tax on car purchases, and we see no such thing here.

mseebach6• 17 years ago

First, the über-fancyness reported is purely COP-15 show-off and nothing else. The bike-counter, for an example, serves no practical purpose. I don't even know what the reported LEDS are.

It's true that it's very nice to be a biker in Copenhagen, but I believe that it's a case of chicken-and-egg: I think most of the amenities are there because Danes enjoy biking in large numbers, and not the other way around.

warfangle2• 17 years ago

Fairly certain the LEDs he was talking about were the turn-lane indicators, that warn a turning car if a bicyclist is on the way. That's kind of amazing, and would potentially do wonders in a city like NYC. We already have some separated bicycle lanes (with obstructions between the cyclers and the autos), separate bike traffic lights, but only in a very few spots (8th avenue has a large stretch).

One of these days I'll get one.. :)

Also, if you watch the video he mentions that it's taken thirty some odd years to build out this infrastructure, and that it used to be a much more car-centric city.

TravisLS• 17 years ago

The other thing that NYC would do well to implement was the so-called "green highway". I bike to work every day and find that our separated bike lanes have longer and more frequent red lights than the lanes given to cars (we have a red light when they have a green light + left turn arrow). Most of the people who bike frequently in the city actually avoid the separated bike lanes because of the poor traffic light timing.

mseebach6• 17 years ago

> turn-lane indicators

Never seen those, but sounds cool.

> it's taken thirty some odd years to build out this infrastructure

Exactly - but the story is framed like "look, this city built this for a purpose, and it worked, now you do the same in your cities" when I believe the real story is that a bike-happy population worked with a willing city to slowly evolve an infrastructure with mutual benefits.

zck• 17 years ago

The bike counter serves merely to feel like you're making a direct impact -- "hey, I made that counter go up. Cool!" It just needs to make people feel good about biking, so they're more likely to do it in the future.

mseebach6• 17 years ago

This travel-film from 1937 discusses the large number of bikes in Copenhagen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrW7MTwN9ss

joubert• 17 years ago

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/portland_se...

baguasquirrel• 17 years ago

My my all the hating on bikes here. What gives? Have any of you actually commuted on a decent bike-- not one of the cheap $300 Walmart ones? It's glorious.

Is it wrong for Denmark to impose such a high tax? There's probably better economic means to accomplish the task. But the hating on the bike counter? Now that's just silly.

If you're in SF South Bay, there are plenty of low-traffic roads where you will beat the cars back home and be much, much less stressed out from not needing to jockey in traffic-- at least if you could give up your prejudice for a moment. It also does your burn rate well for those of you doing startups.

henrikschroder2• 17 years ago

I'll take your word for it that biking in California is glorious.

However, biking in the rainy, cold, northern Europe is anything but glorious. Yes, it's very nice in the summer, it's the remaining 9 months that are bad. Let's just say that the overwhelming majority of the people I see biking in Copenhagen don't seem to enjoy it very much. I bet the majority of them would really want a car instead, but chose not to get one because of the very high price due to the extra tax.

houseabsolute2• 17 years ago

Even biking in California can be tough. I gave it up because drivers are so unfriendly and I don't like feeling sweaty when I get to work.

berntb• 17 years ago

>>biking in the rainy, cold, northern Europe is anything but glorious.

Let us not exaggerate. Biking in northern Europe is OK -- if the roads are ploughed, you have the right clothes and winter tyres (2 * 60 Euro for my bike, shudder. Damn thieves.)

The "right clothes" is admittedly a bit much this week, when it is below minus 10 Celsius. Sigh, maybe I should look for a job down south, in warm and sunny Copenhagen.

>>I bet the majority of them would really want a car instead

I bike because I need the exercise. I won't get a car until I live so I get enough exercise anyway.

RyanMcGreal4• 17 years ago

I commute on a bike that's several levels below a cheap $300 Walmart one -- and it's glorious. Every day, I get to work in a better mood than when I left home. I defy anyone who drives to work to make the same claim honestly.

verisimilitude• 17 years ago

I agree completely -- 5 days ago my bike commute took me through 6 inches of snow. The day after, -25°F (-31.6°C) windchills. Your body gets used to the cold if you bike every day as winter sets in. There really is nothing like putting on the thermal underwear + face mask and pedaling home. Keeps one's spirits up during these short winter days.

ams61102• 17 years ago

What are the temperatures like in your area? If I biked to work, at least 6 months out of the year I'd arrive a dripping, sweaty mess.

bmj3• 17 years ago

Indeed. My commute is a critical part of transitioning between home and the office.

tfh• 17 years ago

I build myself a fixie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-gear_bicycle) from an old bike last summer and I now always take a longer way home because it's really fun to ride. The bike did cost me under 100 euros :)

travisp• 17 years ago

While I'd agree about car vs bike, I'd prefer public transporation. On a bus or subway, I can get some pleasure reading done, which I'd rather do.

HeyLaughingBoy• 17 years ago

Bike or car, I can only conclude that you enjoy being at work more than being at home. I can't think of a single incentive that would cause me to arrive at work in a better mood than when I left home.

Home is where my "life" is. Work is where... well where I work

mitko• 17 years ago

$300 for a average bike is not cheap. Even in USA, where in my opinion the bikes are very overpriced.

Yet, if you want top of the line bike $300 is not enough.

jvdh3• 17 years ago

I don't know, but any half-decent front wheel (hub, spokes, inner and outer tire) will already set you back at least $50. And there are lots of different other parts on a bike.

Even in the Netherlands where we have a mass market for cheap bicycles they still cost at least €200 (new).

mseebach6• 17 years ago

Where do you see hating on bikes?

anamax3• 17 years ago

> If you're in SF South Bay, there are plenty of low-traffic roads where you will beat the cars back home

Yes, there are plenty of low-traffic roads in the South Bay, but how many people can bike faster than cars go on said roads?

anamax3• 17 years ago

The fact that they live within biking distance of where they want to go has nothing to do with it....

grk3• 17 years ago

Not really true. People can take their bikes on S-trains, which come from >20km from the centre.

anamax3• 17 years ago

CalTrain carries bikes too.

jrockway6• 17 years ago

The difference between Denmark and the US is that the US would never implement cycle infrastructure that could possibly increase travel times for cars. Denmark is willing to reduce the convenience of roads for motor vehicles, and that makes for a vastly better cycling experience. (Actually, cycling is fine in the US, but you have to be brave when you are just starting out. Copenhagen has designed in features that makes the roads very newbie-cyclist-friendly, so people don't get scared off the first time they ride on the street.)

Anyway, if the US ever wants to see cycling adopted by the average person and not only people who have already made the decision to commit, we need to: reduce the speed-limit in city centers to 20mph; have bicycle-only light timings; and start selling bicycles that are useful, not just "cool looking".

My guess is that this will not happen in my lifetime.

kingkongreveng_2• 17 years ago

> cycling is fine in the US

My ER doctor friend says urban cycling is idiotic.

I do it all the time but you're kidding yourself if you don't realize it is extremely dangerous.

The more important issue in the US regarding bikes is the lack of density. It's simply not feasible to bike the kinds of distances most people need to go.

jrockway6• 17 years ago

My ER doctor friend says urban cycling is idiotic.

A friend of yours said something, so it must be true...

Most accidents are due to people driving their bicycles unsafely. If you drive safely, urban cycling is not dangerous. If you drive like a maniac and disregard traffic controls (running lights, riding on the sidewalk, going the wrong direction, etc.), then yeah... it's dangerous. Just like it would be as a pedestrian or motorist.

In aggregate, cycling is not significantly more dangerous than any other activity: http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/almanac-safety.html

(Despite this, I am in favor of laws and regulations that make the roads less dangerous. Cars should not go faster than bicycles in cities. If you need to get somewhere fast, use rapid transit.)

InclinedPlane• 17 years ago

Quite so. I know several people who live 30 miles away from work. Adding 3-6 hours every day in commute time is not something most people look for.

njharman• 17 years ago

It's thanks to a lot more than just that infrastructure.

  1 taxes, cost of fuel
  2 culture (USA views bikes as for kids and tree-huggers)
  3 density of urban areas
  4 layout/zoning of urban areas (i.e. no ring of suburbia, shopping/strip malls around cities)
  5 probably others that I'm not aware of

The infrastructure doesn't work without 3 and 4, and probably doesn't work without 2.

jules2• 17 years ago

The Mandatory Helmets also help to discourage bikes.

goatforce52• 17 years ago

In the same way that everyone stopped driving their cars when seatbelts became mandatory?

nraynaud2• 17 years ago

I think a good way to bootstrap the stuff is the rental bike program like Lyon then Paris. They just put a lot of bikes at once in the city.

There's a lot of friction in the beginning (you know how car drivers always think pedestrian and bikes are dangerous, when the kinetic energy computation tell another story) but I think it's efficient.

But you need strong political will, I mean you'll have stories dead bikers in the news, you'll have to cope with the bike-unaware traffic rules and stuff like that.

grk3• 17 years ago

After living in Copenhagen for 1,5 years I think I can add some info to this.

First of all, biking is the only reasonable way to commute in Copenhagen. Car traffic is big, but the most discouraging factor for me is the parking fees. During business hours, paring in the red zone, which is the city centre, is $5.50 per hour. And you have to be lucky to find a spot, and you still have to walk a significant distance to your destination. Whereas when you take your bike, you can leave it just outside the place you're going to (bike parking spots are everywhere).

There is a lot of people who live in Greater Copenhagen (Cph and cities around it) and commute to the centre by S-trains. This creates the problem of having to either pay extra for taking your bike on the train, or having one bike for home - train station and one for train station - work. The attempted solution for that was the city bikes system, free bikes you could rent, in theory everywhere. In practice however, these bikes are nowhere to be found or somehow broken.

So, what Copenhagen really needs is a decent bike sharing system. A friend of mine conducted a survey for a university project, and there is a huge interest in this kind of system. People would gladly pay a monthly fee to be able to get off a train and pick up a bike that's waiting right next to the station.

I see this as a big idea for many cities. More people would use bikes if they didn't have to actually own and maintain them, and care about theft. Someone make this into a startup please? :)

jvdh3• 17 years ago

This already exists in the Netherlands, called the "OV-fiets" (public transport bicycle). You take a subscription (€10 a year), and then using a card you can rent a bicycle at almost any railstation for a little less than €3 for 18 hours. You can rent them longer if you want, and even return them to a different place than you got them from (for a fee).

Most of these places have manned bicycle storage facilities where you can rent them, but they also have some in automated lockers in lesser frequented locations. They're now also starting to put these in commuter parking spots at edges of cities.

jvdh3• 17 years ago

The claim for having the busiest bicycle street of the west is frankly ridiculous. The guy must never have been to the Netherlands. I myself live in Utrecht, and we have streets that see more than 2000 bicycles at 8:30am, let alone at 11am (yes, even on weekends).

access_denied• 17 years ago

To see the number 37 and the word Copenhagen in one headline, makes me think I should get real.

37% of people commute by bike in Copenhagen thanks to this infrastructure

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