France Launches French Tech Ticket, a Startup Visa for Foreign Entrepreneurs

http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/29/france-launches-french-tech-ticket-a-startup-visa-for-foreign-entrepreneurs/

by lelf • 11 years ago

37 48 11 years ago

lucidrains• 11 years ago

after seeing the anti-Uber protests, why would anyone in their right minds go do a startup in France?

pesenti2• 11 years ago

Because there is very good tech talent with much less competition and lower costs than in the US - in part because schools are mostly free.

redthrowaway• 11 years ago

And that tech talent can work anywhere in Europe. So why start a company in a country that's hostile to entrepreneurship when you could start it elsewhere with access to the same talent pool?

solve2• 11 years ago

Lower competition - my favorite lie that I hear told in every EU country. EU is not lower competition from the entrepreneur's perspective. Anywhere in the EU is vastly higher competition.

- Unless you're doing a hyper-local product, you're competing on the global scale.

- The ratio of active investors versus serious entrepreneurs is far, far worse in France than in Silicon Valley.

- Getting good people in France to join your startup is very easy. Getting the absolute best people in the world, that's tough. Not because they don't exist in France. It's because the absolute best people want to leave France. Top talent wants to move to the #1 best place in the world for their industry, no less.

The lifecycle of a (non-lifestyle) startup anywhere in the EU is far harder than it is in Silicon valley, at every stage.

If the government continues to add serious benefits, and many other changes happen though, the balance could maybe start to shift.

Joky• 11 years ago

Did the taxis protesting against Uber in NYC made the US a no-go for entrepreneur? If not, why would it for France...

oh_sigh• 11 years ago

Did the taxis completely block traffic in Manhattan and assault/kidnap uber drivers?

ane• 11 years ago

The food is rather nice.

Toine• 11 years ago

So taxis in Paris protest against a multibillion dollar company and suddenly the entire country of France is against startups ? I agree that France is probably not the best country to launch a startup but this is a pretty poor argument.

nraynaud• 11 years ago

Trashing uber in France is like the US trashing the chinese, uber is not a startup, it's a huge foreign conglomerate entering a new country where there is already a huge incumbent in place, there is nothing startupy anymore about it, you're a few years late to the party.

It's like the crackdowns on online gaming in the US for example.

metahatem• 11 years ago

Not sure how to feel about this considering the recent Uber events in France. (Uber France Leaders Arrested For Running Illegal Taxi Company / http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/two-uber-executiv...)

As an entrepreneur, that is not enticing to me.

scarmig• 11 years ago

There are, of course, other lines of businesses for start-ups to get into.

It is probably true that if you're looking to disrupt how employment markets function, France is probably not a great place to focus your initial efforts. But there are lots of ways to make money outside of that.

bloodorange• 11 years ago

Lots of ways to make money without breaking the law.

Wilya• 11 years ago

Oh, come on.

If your business model is "bypass the law and hope you can get big enough before anyone notices", this kind of setbacks are bound to happen. It happened in France, it could have happened anywhere.

On the other hand, there are thousands of people creating startups without trying to hack the law, and they are doing just fine in France.

phanindra_veera2• 11 years ago

Is there anything similar in U.S.A ?

pkaye• 11 years ago

Some options: http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide

phanindra_veera2• 11 years ago

This is what I need. Thank you.

psychometry• 11 years ago

No, but Canada has one: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/

hasenj• 11 years ago

Awesome! I didn't realize Canada had a startup visa!

iamcurious3• 11 years ago

They need to work on a startup, speak English and stay at least six months in France.

Interesting. I expected speak French or English..

codegeek• 11 years ago

Think about it this way. Expecting foreigners to speak French may be a bigger hurdle to attract interest compared to expecting foreigners to speak English which is spoken the most in the world.

Yes french could still be mentioned but it may not make much difference.

iamcurious3• 11 years ago

It would make the difference to a small group of people who speak French fluently but little to no English, but that is not what I find interesting. I find interesting that France, notorious for protecting its own language, will put a foreign language above it.

codewithcheese• 11 years ago

I wish they would decouple the money from the visa; so they can hand out more visas. I would be interested to live some time in France while I bootstrap a business. I don't need money from the government, actually I will bring my own...that's why countries should be more lenient with visas for entrepreneurs

SandersAK5• 11 years ago

Having lived in France for four years trying to start a company, I can say, without question, this would be the worst idea for anyone who is serious about starting a company.

Most french LEAVE france because of how byzantine and insane the laws are towards companies (let alone startups).

xGrill• 11 years ago

Can you elaborate on this? I had this idea lingering in the back of my head to move to France for 3-6 months to build out my concept/prototype and then move back to the US when I am ready to leave the "pre-revenue" stage of the startup.

SandersAK5• 11 years ago

if your plan is to just vacation in France for 6 months and hack on a prototype, do it. But that probably applies to anywhere in the world.

If you want to set a business up and live in France forreals, then don't do that, and read below.

tl;dr - france is not a culture celebrated for its high risk profile. it celebrates its past and culture, things it wishes to preserve. everything else suffers because of this.

Moving from US to France all of your costs are going to go up. It's really hard to get French people to adopt the latest trends. Historically things are very conservative with the benefit of the doubt erring on the side of the status quo.

Any legal, gov't, or bureaucratic issues you think you have in the US, you can multiply by 20 if you set up in france.

The whole taxation system in France was never designed to deal with risk-heavy entreprises. If you employ someone, you must budget for paid vacation. To employ them at all, you need to draft either a CDI (Contract Duration Indeterminée)which means basically that you're employing them for life, or CDD (Contract Duration Determiné) which means you employ them on short term contract only. So either you marry them or you can't promise them much upside.

Htsthbjig• 11 years ago

As an entrepreneur in Europe I avoid France at all cost, even when it is a big market for us, we develop for them outside.

Great place to live, bad place for working. Worse if the people that decide on your visas and conditions are Communist people. Central planning(communism) is the opposite of startups.

In the US people(the culture and society) admire people that makes money, in my opinion too much. When Americans talk about people they say things like "he is worth X thousands dollars", implying that people is worth the money they have in the bank.

In France it is the polar opposite, the culture hates successful people, envy is endemic and taxes are on the roof, and will only grow higher when the German money stops flowing.

France is one of the natural wealthiest countries I have ever lived, but French people are not very efficient at exploiting it. They believe in eternal rights, but not on duties.

The same way than when you live in China you feel the Cultural revolution, in France you feel the French Revolution at every corner.

akg_67• 11 years ago

This program might appeal to digital nomads. It is a good way to work on your projects for 6 months in a country and then move on to someplace else. I am guessing the program may have some restrictions in this aspect. Nevertheless, interesting program to attract entrepreneurship if conditions are not onerous.

jacquesm2• 11 years ago

After the dailymotion debacle France would not be top of my list if I considered doing a start-up.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/30/sacrebleu-french-pride-kil...

jeremyt• 11 years ago

I can't really believe this is a serious idea. Or maybe it is a serious idea from people who have no idea how startups work.

As one of the other commenters said, the primary reason I wouldn't start a company in France is the "Byzantine and insane laws" that you have to deal with. For starters, how about all of the employment laws that make it difficult to fire poor performing employees.

But beyond that, look at the tax rates. As someone who has been through starting a company before, it's just not worth it without the chance of a good return in the future. A quick internet search reveals that as a non-French citizen, I would be liable for around 56% in taxes if my company ever exited. Compare that with the qualified small business rate of about 15% here in the states...

It's almost offensive to me that the French government thinks that the only thing standing between a successful tech scene and where they are now is the ability to get a visa and some seed capital. Hubris much?

alexeichemenda• 11 years ago

Regarding taxes, you're comparing two very different things. The 15% you're talking about is, as you said, qualified small business rate, which means you have [..] to hold it for more than 5 years. The 56% you're talking about in France is an over simplified number. My company just got acquired (i'm a co-founder), and I can guarantee you I got a better tax deal in France than you will ever get in the US.

I'm not even going to get into the laws debate, but just keep in mind, just like the taxes, it's not at all how you think it is :)

potomushto• 11 years ago

Interesting, the same Startup Visa program for Italy got the same negative reaction[1]. I wonder which European country has the best conditions to start the new high-risk Internet company? Finland? Poland?

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8890952

jacquesm2• 11 years ago

It very much depends on where you are coming from. If you're from the USA or Canada the UK would be your first choice, Germany your second.

France Launches French Tech Ticket, a Startup Visa for Foreign Entrepreneurs

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