Three lessons I learnt from porting Diablo

http://petewarden.typepad.com/searchbrowser/2009/12/three-lessons-i-learnt-from-porting-diablo.html

by petewarden • 17 years ago

83 24 17 years ago

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ghshephard2• 17 years ago

Has anyone ever seen this before?

"There were hundreds of pieces of x86 assembler scattered throughout the code base, which was a problem since we were porting to the Playstation's MIPS processor. Usually just a couple of instructions long, and in the middle of functions, these snippets were pretty puzzling. Finally one of the team figured it out; somebody had struggled with C's signed/unsigned casting rules, and so they'd fallen back on the assembler instructions they understood! The whole team had a good laugh at that"

jrbedard• 17 years ago

On one heavily optimized 3D CAD software that I've worked on, I've seen a hundreds of x86/PPC assembly snippets in #ifdefs, embedded in the C code. It was basically for the software to be very fast on Windows and on Mac OS X PowerPCs. Some of those were legacy optimizations, because modern C++ compilers (VS 2003 and up) are smart enough to match that speed gain with better binary generation. But some other assembly parts were truly meant to recreate a customized and fast GPU-like pipeline on the CPU, using registers for really fast per-pixel/voxel operations.

I've heard that Photoshop is also riddled with assembly code, that's why it took so long for Adobe to port it full-performance for the new Intel-based Macs in 2006. (Lots of PPC -> x86 mini-ports)

benatkin• 17 years ago

That's such a great bite-sized tale. Reminds me of http://folklore.org/.

elblanco4• 17 years ago

I've seen it for parts of code that need to be particularly performant. In the old days, when clock cycles were at a premium and compiler optimizers stunk, great hackers could squeeze an extra 10-30% out of a piece of code by rebuilding certain expensive parts of code in asm instead of relying on the compiler's version. Usually it involved a particularly arcade knowledge of the chip's timing or pipelining rules so that there were no wasted clock cycles, cache misses, or minimizing branch prediction errors....that kind of thing.

lt• 17 years ago

That's writing a whole routine in asm, though. Embedding a couple lines of asm in a function can have the opposite effect - the optimizer can no longer make assumptions about some things disabling a large number of potential optimizations for that routine.

samlittlewood2• 17 years ago

Yeah, I recall people doing similar with 'fistp' to get quicker float->int conversions. (There are quicker tricks using direct manipulation of the fp representation, but those have always had the decency to be hidden in macros).

Also, I recall assembler code (65816) where the programmers had directly encoded instructions (DB $aa,$bb) since an earlier (probably 6502) assembler had not supported them.

In those days, gamers programmers had more in common with scientists in their attitude to programming - they made games, programming was simply a means to that end. Also, games had pretty much zero maintenance after release.

mahmud• 17 years ago

Yes, it's not that unusual for DOS programmers to "fall back" to assembly; inline assembly was much cleaner and far more effective than the disparate OS-hooks built into the various compilers. You could do asm { pushf, pop ax } to save the flags register, and do whatever you want with the machine (e.g. masking interrupts) but to do the same in pure C you would have had to use MS, Borland or Watcom extensions (yes, inline assembly was more portable and stable than the various levels of C standardization supported by the compilers.)

Other fun ones were variable length structs, and bitfields. http://www.ddj.com/cpp/184403480

ghshephard2• 17 years ago

I'm sorry - I should have been more clear - I _get_ that you inline assembly when you need to do something your Compiler won't let you do (or makes difficult), and that clearly people sometimes will tweak some inline assembly to get a bit more performance - But has anyone ever seen a developer "Struggle with C's casting rules" - and switch to Assembler to over come that challenge? That just seems like an unexpected approach to that problem of understanding a kind of fundamental C concept...

gvb• 17 years ago

No, I've never seen someone drop to assy due to something as simple as not understanding typecasting. Historically it has been for speed (used to be common, a lot less common now) or to do something the compiler/language doesn't support. The anecdote falls into the latter class, but only because the original code author didn't understand C well enough.

When I started programming, the running joke was "you can write FORTRAN in any language, some are just more difficult."

wmf• 17 years ago

One of my coworkers commonly uses pointer math rather than array indexing, so inline asm isn't that much of a stretch. Some C programmers are just thinking in assembly.

DLWormwood• 17 years ago

Yup, right here...

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=975575

I wonder if my response to that post triggered him making that blog for clarification. (Basically rebutting my quality complaint.)

elblanco4• 17 years ago

My lessons from his writeup seem to be completely different:

1) Get a paycheck I can live on.

2) Get a mentor.

3) You don't have to finish a job before moving on if things aren't working out.

(not that I'd agree with #3, that just seems to be my takeaway from the story).

Flankk• 17 years ago

My takeaway was this:

"The third lesson I learnt was that you don't need great code to make a great product."

I really believe this to be true. Coders are far too analytical for their own good. If a product works great, then the poor code can be fixed later.

berntb• 17 years ago

I do admire the ability to ship.

But some of the ones with that ability would be better off a little bit less goal driven and spending just a few hours a month reading up on their tools. (And the rest of the world would be better off, too...)

Edit: (A bit clearer syntax.) I might add -- it is OK to do evil stuff if you are in a hurry, but at least isolate those part so they are easily replaceable. (Yes, most everyone should know this.)

barrkel• 17 years ago

Games are somewhat of a special case, though - as long as it works enough for the vast majority of players to complete the game without hitting a roadblocker issue, it's good enough. It doesn't need to withstand longterm maintenance.

elblanco4• 17 years ago

You know, this is really true. My company has recently been making the slow switch from "over-designed and implemented, resulting in a very slow release cycle" to "minimally designed, quickly (but smartly) implemented, fast release cycles".

This comes from two lessons to us:

1) No matter how long you spend designing a feature, it'll probably not be 100% of what the user wants. Do a quicker "draft" of the feature, solicit feedback, and release fast to fulfill customer needs.

2) No matter how long you spend trying to write elegant code, the software will have bugs, and other kinds of problems. Do it quick, observe it in the field, take notes and do bug patches.

Getting the team on-board for these was hard due to the resistance of this being the perceived Microsoft way of doing things, but it has resulted in much higher customer satisfaction because they see continuous progress and feel like their feedback is turning into product (they feel part of the process) rather than tens of months of no progress followed by something they probably didn't want to begin with.

jherdman• 17 years ago

True as that may be, I've worked on far too many projects now that are burdened by this attitude. No tests, sloppy and unreadable code.

My attitude is simple: code like the person who will be working on the app next is standing behind you with a gun to your head. Be diligent in making sure your code is legible, maintainable and documented. If you can't get to one of these now, at least make a note to get back to it.

shelfoo• 17 years ago

I think that this is horrible advice for someone new. But if you've been around for a while, and understand that what you're doing is a hack because you need to get a product released, it's more acceptable.

It's a case of making sure that you know you're doing the wrong thing, vs just assuming that it's the right thing. The latter causes all code to be bad, and the poor code never gets fixed.

petewarden• 17 years ago

I'd agree with those as a summary too. My zero-th problem was that I thought 10,000 pounds was a paycheck I could live on!

I did feel pretty terrible about leaving the project at the time, and I never left a half-finished game again. I'm not sure this attitude makes rational sense from a selfish point-of-view, but I knew I was leaving my colleagues with more work by quitting.

elblanco4• 17 years ago

Been there with a paycheck like that also. It's really really hard to stay committed through a year of Ramen noodles and Taco Bell for those days when you want to treat you and your wife to something "special" once a month.

At any rate, I'm sure it was a good learning experience all around. There is something particularly unique about game development in the software field that isn't necessarily shared anywhere else. I've heard many of these sentiments echoed.

joss82• 17 years ago

"sometimes the worst projects are the best teachers."

That's so true. At least for me.

pgebhard• 17 years ago

I agree, but you definitely wouldn't want to keep jumping from bad project to bad project. The end goal should be to take that very useful experience and turn it into a very successful project.

dazzawazza• 17 years ago

Unfortunately this is a very common introduction to the Video games industry. At least in the UK.

The industry trades on how 'cool' it is to work on games knowing that there are hundreds of talented kids who will do anything to get in to it. They often end up doing poorly paid difficult work under tight deadlines with bosses that make The Office seems like heaven.

Unfortunately people like Liddon are few and far between within the industry.

Three lessons I learnt from porting Diablo

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