Ask HN: What's better for long-run productivity: caffeine or no caffeine?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9560946

by Lorenzo45 • 11 years ago

18 32 11 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm a 19 year-old iOS developer and just starting to get a taste of the 'work grind'. I've been trying to minimize my caffeine intake to avoid building a tolerance and dependency on caffeine, and instead try to get a good night's sleep and nap whenever I need to and can. However, I've noticed that many of my coworkers at my internship consume multiple cups of coffee daily, and recently read the Stackoverflow 2015 survey that said programmers drink an average of 2.75 cups of coffee a day.

I'm starting to wonder if avoiding caffeine or just letting myself become a regular coffee drinker is better for my productivity in the long run. I have noticed that coffee does give me a slight productivity boost, but I'm not sure if it's worth the tradeoff of becoming dependent on it.

davismwfl3• 11 years ago

If you haven't started it yet, I say don't. I am effectively addicted to caffeine and while it has its purposes it isn't a good think. In the past, every few months I'd stop drinking all caffeine for 1-2 months then I'd slowly wind up starting to drink it again. I haven't done this in the past year, which has sucked.

You can be highly functional and productive without caffeine. Taking a nap and getting better sleep is far better then being addicted to coffee or pop.

Lorenzo455• 11 years ago

Thanks for your insight, this was kind of what I was hoping to hear. If you wouldn't mind, could you expand a bit on the negative effects you've experienced due to regularly drinking caffeine, and possibly even some good ones?

davismwfl3• 11 years ago

Sure...

Pluses: I am alert, keeps me going for longer period of times then if I wasn't drinking it.

Minuses: I will crash where my body is just exhausted but I can't shut off my mind. I think some of that is normal with stress and being driven, but a lot of the reason is caffeine. I think it is the primary reason I have a hard time shutting down at night. I am sure there are others, but that is the key I notice.

I will also get a headache now if I don't drink some caffeine in say a ~12 hr period.

I am back to working out and hoping with that and drinking more water I will be able to cut out the caffeine more. I'd like to get it to none or very minimal.

zamalek• 11 years ago

I was previously borderline addicted and one big negative is: I found it impossible to concentrate. After 3 cups my mind would become restless. It's the reason I quit because I couldn't get any work done.

Get citrus fruit on your desk, as well as bananas. That will keep you going for ages.

Bahamut2• 11 years ago

I intake a lot of caffeine, but I also do something novel - there are days where I consume no (or very little) caffeine. Caffeine is useful, but I don't like to rely on it.

Lorenzo455• 11 years ago

I've been considering doing something like this as well, how are you able to prevent yourself from becoming dependent on it?

Bahamut2• 11 years ago

Being addicted to anything is simply something I dislike strongly - I have learned to control addictions by simply taking control of doing only what I want to do.

iovar• 11 years ago

Drink tea.

It has a milder, but longer lasting effect. It's also less likely to cause a 'violent' bowel movement :) .

Personally, I used to drink coffee day and night, while now I only drink tea after 7 or so, PM.

partisan• 11 years ago

I usually drink a couple of cups of green or black tea per day, usually with honey. At some point, when I was in the office, I was drinking up to 4 cups of tea per day. I was miserable at work, tired for other reasons, and felt like I needed it. I was probably pretty dependent on it at that time.

I understand very well how you might end up drinking a lot caffeinated beverages, but I wonder if you can have a placebo effect by drinking water and taking a quick walk outside instead?

Lorenzo455• 11 years ago

Yes tea is a good option, I've done a bit of reading on L-Theanine and tried some caffeine pills paired with L-Theanine with fairly good results. Supposedly it negates the negative effects of caffeine and you don't build a tolerance to it, but I'm not entirely convinced.

I really like your water and exercise idea though, that would certainly be a nice substitute!

delbel• 11 years ago

I recently went 60 days without coffee and had only one cup of tea or chai a day. Basically my productivity went down. Then one day, out of desperation to get work done, drank a single cup of strong coffee and subsequently had mild insomnia that night, but, my productivity levels went up. I really enjoyed the coffee so I went out and bought some very light trader joe's beans and some decaf. I mix the two. I don't have sleep problems and enjoy my coffee in the morning. I try to not drink coffee on Sunday but I find I have a cup right now while getting some client work done.

Lorenzo455• 11 years ago

This is what I'm afraid of, missing out on potential productivity. There may be a difference between people who stop drinking coffee regularly versus people who never started, but I agree that there is a good balance that can be attained with coffee.

methodover• 11 years ago

Are we starting to worry about freaking coffee intake now?!

If you like coffee, drink it. If you have problems with insomnia, try cutting it. If it helps, there you go, you get to decide if coffee is more important to you than insomnia. Most people probably won't get insomnia from drinking coffee.

goldbeck• 11 years ago

Preeeeetty much everyone in our society drinks caffeine [citation needed]. Personally, I find a significant difference in my level of focus between a day in which I had a cup of coffee in the morning and one in which I did not. This is true for me regardless of any dependence.

My advice is to keep tabs on how much you're consuming and consider to giving yourself off days when there isn't work to be done. Definitely try and get a good night's sleep too (coffee late in the day isn't great for this, so worth keeping that in mind).

Most importantly, figure out what works well for you.

Lorenzo455• 11 years ago

This is the answer I was looking for, thanks! I'm thinking the long-term productivity increase from small amounts of coffee is certainly attainable without developing any major side effects.

altcognito• 11 years ago

Remember that the productivity will tail off as your resistance increases as well. You're probably better off exercising and taking in moderate amounts of caffeine from time to time.

caw• 11 years ago

I'm going to add my anecdata in here -- mid 20s, and I do not consume caffeine. I don't drink coffee, tea, or soda regularly. Nor do I drink energy drinks. No caffeine isn't a new thing, I've just never really drank it.

I haven't tried drinking caffeine regularly enough that I can tell whether there's a productivity boost to taking it. I'd like to say I'm pretty productive -- previous job was ranking me in top review buckets for my pay grade(s) for multiple years.

One thing I've noticed is that I'm a morning person, my best hours are 8am-12pm. Most of my coworkers (coffee drinkers) are afternoon people. Not sure if that's a trend or just programmer biases. I have noticed that pretty much all of my caffeine consuming co-workers need to have their coffee before I can ask them anything mildly complex. That could just be ritualistic behavior (get into work, make coffee, don't think about work until then), but could also be caffeine dependency.

ivraatiems• 11 years ago

I'll add my voice here to those who don't drink caffeine. It's not that I have specifically avoided it, but I never picked up the habit, and I've never found a particular benefit when I have tried it.

In my opinion, the idea that more work is better work is one of the great misconceptions of modern, Western culture (it's not a universal one, I know, but it certainly applies in a lot of places). If caffeine would allow me to do some not insignificant but not enormous amount more, but otherwise makes my life less pleasant through reliance on it, withdrawal symptoms, lack of sleep and cost, then I'm not terribly inclined to bother.

neilellis• 11 years ago

This may illuminate the discussion somewhat:

http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm

Productivity is not the amount of work you produce it is how fast and well you achieve your goals. Worth remembering that too.

Gustomaximus• 11 years ago

Something which seems benificial is not have a morning coffee, and have one after lunch. I found the morning good coffee would give the peak/slump effect. While after lunch a coffee seems to be a good way to avoid lunch coma.

mydpy2• 11 years ago

I work out every morning and don't regularly drink coffee unless it's in my morning protein shake (it may sound gross but it's yummy and efficient).

This produces two nice effects: (1) I have no caffeine dependency but still feel energized throughout the day and (2) the effects of coffee are stronger when I really need a boost.

I promise if you take care of your body your work will improve in the long-term.

mydpy2• 11 years ago

Note: I don't think there is anything wrong with a daily cup of coffee. However, many people in our field abuse our mind and bodies in order to meet deadlines. I don't advise this.

joeevans10002• 11 years ago

You never get anything for nothing. Regular coffee drinking adds nothing to your productivity. I can tell you this from years and years of drinking it. Any increase in productivity will be compensated for by an exact opposite later.

Even worse, regular drinking makes you dependent on it, and, although I've been spared this one, stopping can lead to headaches.

I have noticed that some of the most successful programmers I know don't drink coffee at all. I think they also likely lead moderate lifestyles with the right amount of sleep.

Now, that said, the occasional use of coffee can be a great thing, in my opinion, for short term boosts. These moments might be for things like jet lag... that sort of thing. Also, it can be great for safe driving if you are tired. Used in this way, caffeine can be beneficial.

delinquentme• 11 years ago

"You never get anything for nothing." [citation needed]

Menge• 11 years ago

Any increase in productivity will be compensated for by an exact opposite later.

But mammals work that way, we have a sleep and wake cycle because in our average state we would be luggage. Similarly, many engineers have a few fruitful hours a day together with meetings and administrative things where sleepiness and passivity are better than awareness that could lead to aggressiveness and impatience.

My own experience is that colleagues that strategically drink lots of caffeine are good on new development projects. I would be more cautious on other roles as caffeine inhibits peripheral thinking. For example, on caffeine, you may too quickly discard causes in a core analysis or overlook a compatibility issue in a change. You may also make mistakes in new development but mistaken progress is on average better than over caution in new development.

green-in-gold• 11 years ago

I'm investigating this very question myself. I think it's probably something each person has to figure out for themselves. Anecdotally, the mathematician Paul Erdos took amphetamine (not coffee but same idea) every day and considered it crucial to his work. Also, I've been trying drinking only small amounts of coffee: 10g beans + 160g water that I make myself every morning with pour over. And it's great! I can definitely feel it, but I don't get jittery/anxious/unable to focus like I used to gulping down big cups of coffee.

PebblesHD• 11 years ago

I'm not sure about the environment you work in but the enterprise office (Bank) I'm in at the moment has a monumental caffeine intake. I've had a problem with energy drinks since high school which has carried on into my later life but this is just me. I find I work best on an if needed basis, I won't just have a coffee or Rockstar or something if I don't need it, just if I feel myself dropping off, usually in the afternoon.

nikdaheratik• 11 years ago

Getting enough sleep is the most important factor in productivity for programming or other "brain" work. Caffeine is not a real substitute for sleep.

When and whether to take in caffeine depends somewhat on your own situation. I am not a morning person. Morning caffeine helps a great deal as far as getting into the correct mindset, and I end up drinking a few cups of French press (or a double espresso) in the mornings and don't usually need to take any for the rest of the day. I sometimes take tea in the afternoon, but some of that is because I enjoy the break rather than a need to manage alertness.

I also worked previously at a company where half of the programmers would take an actual 30-60 minute lunch together everyday and this break in the middle did alot to help both the desire to be at work and actual productivity as there was rarely an "afternoon slump."

IMO, the best way to ensure productivity is to get enough sleep and take small regular breaks of ~5-10 mins every couple of hours, whether to get coffee/tea or just a drink of water and a short walk. A lunch break is also good if you can manage it. The mind works more efficiently if you don't force it to tackle too much at a time. Stepping away from the screen for a few minutes and just walking lets your conscious mind rest while still letting subconscious mind work on the problem.

dustinls• 11 years ago

If you decide to go the caffeine route, take 3:1 mg of l-theanine with it, (so 50 mg caffeine, take 150 l-theanine).

It helps counter any nervousness, restlessness, and jitteriness caused by caffeine.

Naps, exercise, and a healthy diet are a better alternative though. When you are using caffeine your productivity will be riddled with peaks and crashes.

I quit caffeine, cut out gluten, and even meats (except fish) and was more productive than ever, but eventually got back to old habits, but I do plan on quitting caffeine as soon as I can take a break from working for a week.

Ask HN: What's better for long-run productivity: caffeine or no caffeine?

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