Trying Something New on Immigration in Colorado

http://www.feld.com/archives/2015/03/trying-something-new-immigration-colorado.html

by prostoalex • 11 years ago

75 43 11 years ago

codeonfire5• 11 years ago

The university can't discriminate based on country of origin, which is exactly what is being proposed:

"we are particularly focused on international entrepreneurs."

It doesn't matter if you give the money to CU and then the university hires someone "international." It's still discrimination at a public institution. Personally I don't understand why they insist on having someone non-American on H1B or why they absolutely must travel to the US to start a start-up. Give someone money where they already live. Don't exclude Americans. What's so hard about that?

pmorici• 11 years ago

The Supreme Court has said that making employment decisions based on citizenship status doesn't qualify as discrimination under the civil rights act because citizenship status is not the same thing as "national origin" which is what the law prohibits discrimination on.

ESPINOZA v. FARAH MFG. CO., 414 U.S. 86 (1973)

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vo...

codeonfire5• 11 years ago

Regardless, what is the motivation to want to discriminate? The only thing I can see is that having someone in the US under H1B gives them power over that person.

sparkzilla2• 11 years ago

This is the worst comment I have ever read on HN. There are already plenty of opportunities for Americans to get support for their startups. The US visa system makes it extremely difficult for foreign entrepreneurs to start businesses in the US, and Mr Feld's attempts to improve the situation should be applauded.

codeonfire5• 11 years ago

I see...You believe the cause is so noble that it's obvious drawbacks are beyond discussion. Then lets discuss something else. Why don't you tell us why you think it's so important for foreign entrepreneurs to start businesses in the US. Do you feel the same about US entrepreneurs opportunities in foreign countries?

wahsd• 11 years ago

You should realize that America is being deconstructed into a corporate entity. Being American really doesn't even matter any more, you are a head of cattle on Big Sky USA Ranch Inc. where the upper sliver of society is the only net beneficiary while Americans are cast aside at the drop of a dime if there are profits to be made by some other means.

Especially here, foreign fools are going to cheer this type of policy on, because they can then self-extract their talents out of their own society and come to the USA to build up our corporate masters' relative domination while their home countries and societies atrophy.

Brain drain is starting to become an ever greater issue for even advanced societies, especially the ones that pay for their citizens' education. The tax payer is footing the education and then, at the first chance, many of them, under the spell of America's formidable marketing and PR machine, dispatch to the USA with sparkles in their eyes; all along, not realizing they are just a cog in the wealthy's machine.

With every immigrant, whether skilled or unskilled, the inflation eats away at the earnings and progress of the average American like an endless treadmill that the wealthy have dangled an image of the American dream in front of.

Yes, come to America, everyone. Make me more wealthy by increasing the population, make me more wealthy through inflation, make me more wealthy by pushing down labor rates and cheapening salaries, make me ever more powerful by draining your talents and labor from your home societies, culture, and economy.

mfringel• 11 years ago

Parse error: Rant did not include word "sheeple".

terravion• 11 years ago

This is fantastic! I hope it soon makes moot many of the immigration restrictions on talented technologists.

We make it so hard to recruit great talent in this country and so hard for talented entrepreneurs--who often don't qualify for work or family based visas--to get a visa.

jabo• 11 years ago

  Consistent with university policy and applicable law, entrepreneurs in 
  the program will be free to work on their existing entrepreneurial ventures or 
  start a new company in one of the best entrepreneurial communities in the world.

Isn't the requirement for a H1B visa that the "non-immigrant alien" not work for any other company/institution other than the one that sponsored the visa? How does the program get around that?

pandaman2• 11 years ago

Full-time employment is also a requirement (and I believe 20h per week is not considered full-time in the visa context) so either they've found a way around the law or the USCIS is going to bust them.

chetanahuja2• 11 years ago

I don't think full-time employment is a strict requirement of the H1B visa. It's just that most companies wouldn't go through the hassle of H1B sponsorship (and it's a huuuuge hassle for both the employer and the employee) for a part time employee.

therealwill• 11 years ago

IANAL but as long as money does not change hands they should be in the clear. There is nothing stopping someone on an H1B doing a "hobby" and then pitch that "hobby" to investors to get seed money to form a startup. The investors would then have to sponsor their new H1B.

Lawtonfogle5• 11 years ago

H1B and Immigration should be kept separate. Personally I'm pro-immigration and anti-H1B because of the potential for the H1B relationship to be abused in ways that are a detriment to both the one with the H1B and to the general employees in the same field. Personally, I have the skills to compete with an Immigrant for a fair paid position. I do not want to be competing for depressed wages against a H1B worker who has legally enforced company loyalty lest they be deported.

davidw5• 11 years ago

That's understandable, but perhaps also something of a "perfect is the enemy of the good" situation, since there seem to be large swathes of the US populace that do not want a more liberal worker immigration policy of any kind.

Lawtonfogle5• 11 years ago

I'd prefer no policy change over an increase in H1Bs. This is more of a "nothing is better than bad" situation in my view.

I may even go so far as to suggest that significantly increasing H1Bs could hurt general immigration policy. Companies would rather have more H1Bs than immigrants with the ability to defend their rights and the general population will see the damage caused by H1Bs (and with some well place propaganda) instead blame immigration. But this is a thought I have just thought and have not yet given full thought to.

dominotw2• 11 years ago

Personally I'm pro-immigration and anti-H1B

That statement is self contradicting, since H1B is the only way to immigrate to USA.

Edit: Unless you already have family here willing to sponsor your PR.

toomuchtodo• 11 years ago

No, it isn't. To argue such is disingenuous. You can be for the idea of immigration but believe the current H1-B system is a sham setup as an indentured servitude model to a majority of its participants.

dragonwriter2• 11 years ago

>Personally I'm pro-immigration and anti-H1B
That statement is self contradicting, since H1B is the only way to immigrate to USA.

No, its not self-contradicting. One, because H-1B isn't the only way to immigrate to the USA (there's a whole bunch of immigrant visa categories [0], H-1B is just one visa category, and technically its a non-immigrant category that allows dual intent -- that is, its a non-immigrant visa holders of which are not prohibited from also seeking permanent residency.)

And, two, because one can support immigration but think all the existing mechanisms are undesirable, and be pro-immigrant but oppose all of the status quo immigration mechanisms, preferring new mechanisms. So even if H-1B was the only existing US immigration avenue, the statement wouldn't be self-contradictory.

[0] A partial list -- Family based: IR1, IR2, IR3, IR4, IR5, CR1, CR2, F1, F2, F3, F4, F2A, F2B, IH3, IH4; Employer based: E1, E2, E3, EW3, C5, T5, R5, I5.

EDIT: to respond to edit of parent...

Edit: Unless you already have family here willing to sponsor your PR.

And this is still wrong, because while family-based immigration is the main route in the US, there are also employer-based immigrant categories, and even additional dual-intent non-immigrant visas (what the H-1B is that allows it to be used for immigration) besides the H-1B.

yummyfajitas2• 11 years ago

They aren't a detriment to the one with the H1B. That person is better off than they would be without it.

Believe it or not, that Indian or Chinese fellow is a reasonably smart and savvy developer just like you. They compared the "legally enforced loyalty test" to their other available options and determined that the HUGE pay hike (think 500-750%) made it worth their while. Further, the transferability of the "legally enforced loyalty test" only means that finding a new job and rage quitting must be done in exactly that order. Many people take a job with the first sponsoring employer with the express intention to shift jobs the minute they hit US soil.

I know you don't want to be competing with the nice Indian fellow, but don't spin your protectionism as somehow being for his benefit. You simply want to confine him to (American style) poverty to protect your paycheck.

Lawtonfogle5• 11 years ago

I know you don't want to be competing with the nice Indian fellow, but don't spin your protectionism as somehow being for his benefit.

As I said, I am pro-immigration. I would have no problem him coming over here with a green card and I am for extending the number of green cards given out.

You simply want to confine him to (American style) poverty to protect your paycheck.

It seems your assmptions about me are quite mistaken.

shas3• 11 years ago

Is it the government's job to prevent legal wage depression? How exactly is H1B wage depression? If there is a legal and ethical way of hiring someone who can do your work for less, why should that be shut out? It's a different matter if you are talking about the minimum wage, which does merit some protection.

Wage-based arguments for H1B are pure protectionism.

There are legitimate problems with H1B, e.g. spouse not being allowed to work and the irrational country quotas for transitioning H1Bs into green cards. 'Wage-depressing' and 'job-stealing' are specious critiques at best. It is debatable whether the government should be in the business of preventing wage depression.

Lawtonfogle5• 11 years ago

Is it the government's job to prevent legal wage depression? How exactly is H1B wage depression

The problem is the government intervention in the H1B. That is why immigration without the specific form of government intervention that is found in H1B is something I can support. The problem is that the government enforces company loyalty on penalty of being thrown out of the country or worse.

Let them be hired and move here, but let them be just as free to seek a new employer if they ever feel they are being taken advantage of.

krrishd• 11 years ago

This is great to hear, I know Craig has spent upwards of a year making this happen and it's awesome to see it come to fruition. Hopefully this kind of thing moves beyond Boulder into other places.

wooyi• 11 years ago

It's great to see individuals/institutions being innovative on this front. I applaud Brad, his wife and CU for this.

For Americans afraid of immigrants (H1B or other types) stealing your jobs - research shows that you'll likely be better off in the long run.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/debunking-the-myt...

Entrepreneurs don't steal jobs - they create jobs.

Trying Something New on Immigration in Colorado

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