The God Who Peter Molyneux Forgot

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-02-11-the-god-who-peter-molyneux-forgot

by danso • 11 years ago

113 64 11 years ago

cpr4• 11 years ago

Should HN listings correct bad grammar in article titles? ;-)

kennymeyers2• 11 years ago

At this point in time, I believe using who or whom is a stylistic choice. It has long been accepted to use "who" in this context.

cpr4• 11 years ago

So, if actual correct grammar doesn't matter any more, then I suppose everything is a "stylistic choice"?

fenomas3• 11 years ago

I don't think "whom" is needed here, if that's what you mean. The object of "forgot" is "God"; "who" is acting as a relative pronoun.

(I'd argue "The God that Peter Molyneux Forgot" would sound more natural, though..)

cpr4• 11 years ago

Peter Molyneux forgot whom? The God.

spiritplumber• 11 years ago

Crowfunding not delivering seems to be a fairly standard thing. What are the advantages of overdelivering?

VikingCoder3• 11 years ago

Getting to crowd-fund again.

Sharing your passion with the world.

Personal accomplishment and pride.

IvyMike• 11 years ago

Molyneux has a personal brand that he has damaged through this kickstarter. If you don't consider your reputation to be valuable, it soon won't be.

minimaxir4• 11 years ago

The issue is that Molyneux has had his personal brand tarnished for awhile (Fable + Project Milo), but he still received reputation and respect.

minimaxir4• 11 years ago

Overdelivering is a subjective aspect when games are involved. I would image that the developers of crowdfunded games like FTL and Shovel Knight would be able to do whatever they want with the revenues they generated.

ijk• 11 years ago

Having sales of your product after the Kickstarter delivers? Doesn't apply to all Kickstarter projects, but any of the bring-an-early-product-to-release ones will benefit from positive word of mouth.

VikingCoder3• 11 years ago

"Peter Molyneux breaks promise about how awesome something he's making will be. Film at 11."

mhurron• 11 years ago

Don't miss our followup report this Sunday, "Companies that are under no obligation to do something that will cost them money have a tendency to not do that thing."

joosters2• 11 years ago

Surely they are under an obligation, since these game features were goals and promises on their kickstarter campaign. Kickstarters are contractually obliged to deliver on their promises.

swang• 11 years ago

Unfulfilled promises since 2001.

VikingCoder3• 11 years ago

Because he's not satisfied...

...until you're not satisfied.

frik2• 11 years ago

Peter Molyneux unfulfilled promises are a running gag. He is really good at PR and has a charming personality so he gets away with it. He fails to deliver since Black & White 1 (2001).

coroxout• 11 years ago

I remember being excited in 1993 when PC Format started a "Learn to program C with Bullfrog!" column. There were I think two columns out of a promised series, the source code provided (which was supposed to animate the sprites from Syndicate) didn't work, and then the series mysteriously disappeared.

He also did some great games in the 90s (and the 80s - Populous is my favourite, released in '89), so I was also unaware of the repeating pattern until Black & White.

minimaxir4• 11 years ago

It's worth noting that it's highly likely that Curiosity itself was rigged; infinite layers of the cube, until the marketing died down. (http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/1/4287428/curiosity-ending-22c... )

It's also worth noting that startups do exactly similar tactics with waitlists. (what, you really think 100,000 people would be willing to join a wait list for a random startup with no publicity?)

furyofantares• 11 years ago

what, you really think 100,000 people would be willing to join a wait list for a random startup with no publicity?

Anything specific you're referring to?

minimaxir4• 11 years ago

It mostly started happening after Mailbox's waitlist of hundreds of thousands and subsequent buyout from Dropbox during the wait list period.

I saw this article this morning and it made me raise my eyebrows: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-league-app-has-a-75000-pe...

A waitlist isn't inherently impossible for startups; I'd expect a few hundred at most, but 75,000?

EDIT: All email clients have the same name. :p

3am• 11 years ago

So this is a non-story. The royalty was based around a feature the company hasn't been able to deliver and was not contractually obligated to by any time. The kid doesn't seem particularly upset, and while it's not heartwarming, there doesn't seem to be any wrongdoing anywhere (other than etiquette-wise for the studio staying in touch more frequently... and perhaps they didn't want to spill dirty laundry about execution/financial issues to a contest winning teenager).

edit: Surprised by the negative reaction to this post. At least 5 downvotes altogether. I'm not endorsing Monyneux's actions in any way. I'm just saying that it's obvious what happened. They promised royalties on a product they failed to deliver for business and technical reasons. Now they are pivoting to a new game to try to stay in business.

They should have owned up to it, and given the kid an apology, a check for 1000 GBP, and modelled a character in "The Trail" as damage control.

ngoldbaum• 11 years ago

I think it's more about them lying to their fans in an attempt to drum up publicity.

fit2rule• 11 years ago

I think this story is more about how hype on the Internet works more than anything else. When I first saw the Curiosity announcement, and then spent 20 minutes (not much more) playing the game, I was really intrigued by just what was happening. For it to have fizzled and turned into your typical Molyneux-bashfest, replete with corporate liability clauses and non-delivery of products, well .. its more like the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Of course, a lot of us have gotten to the point where the hype around Molyneux is itself enough entertainment. I was there in the Black&White days, which I considered to be a really interesting concept, but as is so often the case these days, the Creator of that Universe got bored, and moved on. Maybe thats the real lesson here ..

JimmyM• 11 years ago

I think it's a story because of Molyneux. Peter Molyneux has failed to deliver completely for a long time.

With Godus, with Curiosity, it increasingly seems as though he failed to deliver even a finished game and in addition it seems as though he failed to even try.

For many gamers, it's the end of the final shred of Molyneux's respectability. People may snark about it, "Oh, what a surprise", but this was his last chance.

The royalty (or at least some prize) formed part of a concept that was at the heart of Curiosity - some grand, real, reward that justified all the cow-clicking nonsense. As such, it was an essential part of the game that people played. Meanwhile, Godus continues to languish without the promised features.

Comparing him with Shyamalan, this would be his Last Airbender. Not earth-shattering news that he messed it up completely, but final confirmation that his talent - if he ever had it - seems to have deserted him.

nightski• 11 years ago

I think this is vastly overstating the importance of respect for a developer. What it comes down to is if he released a respectable game tomorrow, it would sell.

Despicable acts by game companies are nothing new, yet gamers continue to buy the games in droves. Ubisoft is a great example.

All that matters is if a game is good or not. If the game is terrible then good karma or a massive marketing budget can win you sales but overall having a fun game is the most important factor imho.

actsasbuffoon• 11 years ago

That's harsh. Molyneux has done incredible work in the past. He played a part in Populous, Syndicate, Dungeon Keeper, and Black & White. All of those games were ground breaking.

Peter Molyneux's greatest strength is also his greatest weakness: he's incredibly creative and ambitious. He aims very high, often a little beyond his reach. Frankly, that's what we should all be doing. I don't quite remember the quote, or the person who said it, but it went something like, "If you're not failing the majority of the time, you're not aiming high enough."

I'd rather play a game that was trying to be incredible but fell just short, rather than a game that aimed to be passable and hit the mark. Maybe that's what bugs me about Curiosity and Godus; these aren't the big, ambitious games I've grown accustomed to from Molyneux.

joosters2• 11 years ago

Tell that to all those people who funded Godus on kickstarter, based upon the promised feature list and goals. If you read some of the linked articles, Peter Molyneux basically admits to saying anything in order to get the backers' money. That's disreputable and unethical. But I doubt he cares at all, he's too busy over-hyping and over-promising on his next game.

frik2• 11 years ago

Peter Molyneux. He was a great game designer in the 1990s at Bullfrog. I mean Populous, Syndicate, Theme Park, Magic Carpet, Dungeon Keeper (to a lesser extend also Black & White and Fable) were great games.

He is really good at PR, he always promises a lot and he almost never delivers (game functionality, not about the article). He has a bad reputation IMHO at least since Black & White 1 in 2001, his earlier games were great! Though he is a charming guy and get away with it. The article is rubbish, just like Molyneux latest 22Cans's "Godus" god game.

the_af2• 11 years ago

Was Syndicate (an all time favorite of mine) designed by Molyneux? According to Wikipedia, it was designed by someone named Sean Cooper. I have to wonder... is it a coincidence that it's not a God game?

(To give Molyneux his well-earned credit, I also loved Populous and Dungeon Keeper!)

AlyssaRowan• 11 years ago

Yes, but Molyneux's design was called Higher Functions - all you controlled was the "mood" bars (adrenaline, blue funk, don't remember), no direct control over the agents. Used to have some assembly source from it, I think.

javadocmd• 11 years ago

Godus is really an extended performance art piece. Molyneux is showing us that real gods appear, make big promises, and then leave their followers -- even the most sainted among them -- to wonder their whole lives if the promises are true.

alasdairnicol• 11 years ago

I have a happier experience of winning a Molyneux competition. Back in the day, I entered a Theme Hospital competion on the Bullfrog website, and received a copy of Syndicate and a Bullfrog leather jacket in the post. I was maybe 12, so the XL jacket was far too big for me, but I was still thrilled.

devonoel• 11 years ago

Surprise of the century, Peter Molyneux doesn't deliver on his promises. Still waiting for that acorn to grow into a mighty oak Molyneux, you silly bastard.

SixSigma3• 11 years ago

Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell. ~Karl Popper

MrJagil2• 11 years ago

It's interesting, I started following development of Godus and https://wftogame.com/ at the same time, both spiritual successors to early Bullfrog games. None of them are out of beta/alpha/early-access/whatever yet, both having been delayed for YEARS.

It's such a strange thing to witness; this developer passion and designer dream just slowly withering away. Play Godus for 2 minutes and you will feel why people ache for that experience. It's beautiful. Like The Witness. Calm. And WFTO, watch the trailer. The speaker is the same guy who did dungeon keeper in 1998. These games are pulling your heartstrings, no wonder they get their money. In some way, I would still throw money at another one of these games, if only because a slim chance of a new Bullfrog title is better than none.

At least Blizzard is still going strong; if anyone want a truly unique and delightful experience I can recommend Hearthstone.

Maybe the indie game world need an incubator, like YC.

TeMPOraL• 11 years ago

A tangent - don't know if it's intentional on the part of the developers, but I can't stop reading http://wtfogame.com as "WTF ogame". I honestly expected to see a browser MMO under that link.

MrJagil2• 11 years ago

The name "War for the Overworld" was the first sign that this game was going to lack in aesthetics, which was such a big part of the old Bullfrog games (sound design, graphics, general feel, humor etc). To be fair though, Dungeon Keeper III was going to be named something along those lines, and actually, despite the delays, WFTO seems to be doing pretty good.

ido• 11 years ago

Having spent a week playing godus on my iPad (probably a few hours in total play-time), I felt it was quite a lovely game if you accept its limitations and play style. It does require patience though.

It has it's flaws but I feel like I've got my money's worth (I spent some money on IAPs cause there was no other way to pay for the mobile version).

Impossible• 11 years ago

Maybe the indie game world need an incubator, like YC.

There are a few groups and companies that are attempting this with various success. Afaik, the most successful version of this is Indie Fund (http://indie-fund.com/), but it's not an incubator in the same way YC is, it's more like an indie game angel investor or VC.

Joystick Labs attempted to follow the startup incubator model for indie games and failed. http://www.gamefounders.com/ Appears to be an active game incubator that follows something close to the YC model.

A couple of game developers including Yetizen and Firehose Games have started incubators.

cpeterso2• 11 years ago

"Molyneux insists 22Cans is in rude health"

paulannesley• 11 years ago

I had to look up “rude health”. It counterintuitively means “excellent health”.

cpeterso2• 11 years ago

oh! I assumed it was a typo for "good health" because there was, what I assume, another typo earlier in the article: Does Bryan feel duped, I wonder? "I should do. You would think. … "

cannonpult• 11 years ago

...A tiny message appeared on the screen of his smartphone. It contained an email address for someone at 22Cans, the Guildford studio Molyneux had founded after leaving Microsoft and traditional game development behind.

Bryan, confused but intrigued, followed the instructions. Have I really won, he asked? An email appeared with a the message "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."

peterashford• 11 years ago

It's poor that the developers didn't keep in contact with Bryan but that's not Molyneux's fault - I'm sure he's not the company's PA.

It's a bugger the game isn't released yet - but he explained in the article the external unforeseen issues that caused the delay. Software often gets delayed. Why is this illegal for PM?

PM's only fault was getting excited about features he wanted for Fable which they weren't able to implement. That's a communication style issue which I think he has learned from. Other than that he has an enviable backlog of titles which prove his ability to deliver. I don't believe he deserves the BS he gets from gamers who seem to think PM owes them something.

DonHopkins• 11 years ago

I chatted Peter Molyneux up after he hyped up his cube clicker at his keynote address at the Unity conference in Amsterdam a few years ago. He didn't appreciate it when I ventured a guess that the secret thing he was hiding inside the cube was a cow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_Clicker

I fondly recall the exciting demos and wild claims that Peter Molyneux gave of Black and White at CGDC during the late 90's, which reminds me of Joe Spark's exciting demos and wild claims about Total Distortion that he was showing at practically every computer conference for several years during the early 90's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Distortion

I think they were both interesting games, over-demoed before their time then under-shipped after their time. They had a lot of unique original ideas, but both would have been much better received were it not for all the hype that set such unrealistic expectations.

The idea behind Total Distortion was that you went out into a virtual world, explored, fought guitar battles, took pictures, and shot video. Behind the scenes, the pictures and videos were annotated with metadata about the subjects.

Then you went back to your multimedia production studio and used a miniature kid-friendly version of Adobe Premier to produce music videos using the raw content you gathered from the game. Implementing a music video editor in Director was an amazing technical achievement in and of itself.

But then (and here's the hard part) you had to sell you music videos to simulated hollywood agents, who evaluated your videos based on their (very diverse and whacky) personal preferences. The metadata in the pictures and video you used would entertain or disgust the various agents in different ways, and they'd give you feedback along the lines of "I'm a people person, and I want to see more people in it!" or "I'll be honest fellas, it was sounding great, but I could have used a little more cowbell."

But Joe Sparks demoed it at so many conferences that it was a running joke that it would never be released, because he keep adding new cool features to make each demo more awesome than the last. When it finally was released, it was a big disappointment, after seeing all those fantastic demos.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090516110053/http://www.gamespo...

It was a brilliant idea that was way before its time, and pushed the limits of the technology, incorporating machinima and video editing into a game, but the execution was mediocre compared to all the great hype. It was terribly difficult to implement that kind of stuff in Director in the early 90's. It would be great to see somebody try the same idea again, but with modern technology.

The God Who Peter Molyneux Forgot

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