Lessons learned from blowing an interview

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8732244

by rukittenme • 12 years ago

9 19 12 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I don't have a blog or anything so I figured I'd share my experiences here on HN. I hope this isn't against any site rules.

I had an interview today. The second interview, which means I would have to write some trivial amount of code in order to prove I didn't just make everything on my resume up.

Let's just say I didn't make a good case for myself. I choked.

Here's a few lessons I learned:

1. Don't write a single line of code until you know what you want your output to look like.

2. Make gratuitous use of your language's print function. Catch your errors sooner rather than later.

3. Narrate your thought process out loud for your interviewer. Maybe they'll have pity on your poor, nervous soul.

4. Oh my god, don't say "shit" when your code doesn't build.

A little backstory.

I had 30 minutes to parse a file and perform some task with the data. I fumbled around for 30 minutes. Highlights include: copy pasting code from my old projects, mumbling "shit" -- which I never do, and just generally acting like a clueless idiot. It was such a bizarre mix of feelings. It started with nervousness, then embarrassment, then frustration, and finally shame.

Anyway, at the end of the process I had code that sort of worked for some imaginary, other task.

What's crazy is, after the call was over, I went back to work, opened up a text editor, and wrote functioning code in less than 10 minutes. It was 12 lines of code. 12 lines of code cost me a job.

But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that I've done the task before...many, many times. Four months ago it was my full time job to do those sorts of things. All that experience was buried under so much dust I guess I couldn't find it within the time period.

Next steps? Time to put my resume out there again. Regardless of all the negative things that happened today, I'm happy that I put myself out there and gave myself a chance to succeed.

Anyone else do something similar? How did you recover?

MalcolmDiggs• 12 years ago

I believe this could just as easily be titled "Why you shouldn't force candidates to code live for you". From my perspective that company is losing out on an experienced dev, who can do the work backwards and forwards. All because they decided to gauge you this particular way. It's a shame for them.

I think you reacted as many of us do... being nervous, hyper self-conscious, second-guessing your instincts, and not getting anywhere near the 'zone' or 'flow' you normally operate in. I think this is normal...and doesn't really reflect one-way or another on your ability to do the day-to-day work in a calm atmosphere.... which is why IMHO the results of your coding session aren't particularly useful in evaluating you as a candidate.

rukittenme3• 12 years ago

I don't think we can draw conclusions from my personal disaster :P. They were really nice, intelligent people and they basically asked me a question that was a step up from fizz buzz (in my opinion).

I can see how the more brain-teaser-y questions would be a huge pain in the butt and not give you any useful info on the candidate, though.

adrianlmm• 12 years ago

In my situation, my task was to create a table in a Oracle database, then create the persistence layer, after that create a WCF service (yeah configuring the application.config from memory) that would expose the data, consume it in an ASP.Net application and validate the input with JavaScript I had to do this in 90 minutes, but they just gave me 60, I left the place worried, cause, obviously I didn't finish, anyways, I managed to create all but the JavaScript validation, btw, all this from memory, I wasn't allowed to search in the internet or use my previous code.

I was so nervous but coding relaxed me, so It when well in the end, I believe I had help from above.

AznHisoka• 12 years ago

Geez, I'd leave as soon as they told me to do all that from memory. Not the type of company I'd want to work for.

dreamweapon• 12 years ago

Anyone else do something similar? How did you recover?

Yup. About a zillion trillion times until I learned how to push my mind through it. It's just another kind of performance, and it requires training and psyching-up for, like any other.

What's crazy is, after the call was over, I went back to work, opened up a text editor, and wrote functioning code in less than 10 minutes. It was 12 lines of code. 12 lines of code cost me a job.

This happens all the time, unfortunately. The people constructing these "tests" simply neglect to consider the level of anxiety many candidates have to deal with (not to mention the distractions that aren't even related to anxiety or insecurity -- like just the discomfort that comes from being watched, and having to explain, in real time, thought processes that you're used to experiencing as completely private -- and on no particular deadline).

It's also not too different from real-life coding. When under pressure (or just needing a break), my first approach to a moderately difficult (or even fairly trivial) coding task might be pure crap. Then, after the coffee break (or just letting the problem gestate without thinking directly about), a much simpler and more intuitive solution emerges -- almost like magic.

Of course, the fun part is we don't get that second "after the coffee break" try in coding interviews. What happens instead is that some guy (who at the end of the day, might be just as well qualified as you are -- but at different things at the moment) thinks you're an idiot for not immediately solving some problem the pulled from some book or website. Then goes and gets himself another $6 latte (while you go back to either unemployment or your dead-end job).

How did you recover?

Experience. Having enough sufficiently cool/rewarding job (and non-job) experiences to get a visceral, internal assurance that other people's assessments of you just don't matter is really the hugest and most fundamental part.

And then after that, just do all the background reading on "interview-ology" (including all the coding challenges, the brain teasers, the inane HR and culture fit questions). Then like the saying goes, "Get up in the morning. Fail. Go home. Do it all over again." Just keep going to as many interviews as you can (without burning any bridges) until you get the hang of it -- which eventually you will.

cnp• 12 years ago

It gets better with time. I hit a point where I couldn't stand choking anymore and realized that the interviewer isn't necessarily looking for the correct answer; what they're looking for is your ability to understand and talk through problems. Once this realization was made coding interviews became almost fun rather than apocalyptically terrifying.

dreaminvm• 12 years ago

A good practice for me is to begin with pseudo-code that outlines the logic of what I want to do. If the pseudo-code makes sense, its usually trivial to implement.

davismwfl• 12 years ago

Been there and done it, and failed looking like a complete moron. Like everyone else already said I figured out my personal stupidity and worked through it.

This is also the exact reason why we stopped doing this with people, it just isn't reflective of if they are good or not. Instead we ask you to psuedo code something and just walk us through it as you do it. In fact we prefer to do it as a team, so we suggest something and hopefully you take it from there, or correct us or give us your ideas etc. It also helps us see if you fit in the team too, and honestly it helps people relax.

And hey, I would laughed if I heard a candidate say oh shit. that's good stuff, and shows you are human like the rest of us. Frankly, I wouldn't be worried about blowing that interview, you'll find someplace where you'll fit and do well.

japhyr2• 12 years ago

Do you think you could have called them back 15 minutes later and said, "Hey, sorry, I got nervous during the interview and that's pretty unusual for me. I just want to let you know I did solve the problem in 10 minutes after the interview. I don't expect you to give me a second chance, but if you want to talk about what I came up with I'd be happy to tell you what I started thinking about the problem as soon as we hung up."

They want someone to do well in the interview, so while some interviewers wouldn't talk to you more, I wonder if some might jump right back into the conversation. Any thoughts on how they might have responded to this? Did you consider calling them right back?

geoelectric• 12 years ago

Anything's worth a try, but as a somewhat cynical interviewer I'd assume that they Googled it.

rukittenme3• 12 years ago

No I didn't. I could have at least emailed them with the code attached. But at this point its been 8 hours so I'm a little over the time limit :P. Do you think its worthwhile to email them?

mattm• 12 years ago

Yes especially if you explain the solution in detail.

japhyr2• 12 years ago

My thinking was if you had gotten in touch 10 minutes after the interview and you could laugh about having been nervous, they might have opened up the conversation again. Of course they might think you googled it, but you didn't. If you simply got past the nervous phase because the interview was "over", and you could suddenly talk at a much higher level about the problem you were working on, it would be clear you weren't just spouting 10 minutes of googling.

If you're in competition with a number of other well-qualified people for the job, this probably won't help. But if they don't have any strong candidates, they might be happy to see that you've gotten past the nervous phase, and give you a second chance. I think you'd get a better response 10 minutes after the interview than 8 hours later.

Most of my interviewing experience centers around teaching positions, on both sides of the interview table. As an interviewer in these situations, I'd have welcomed a followup conversation.

hansy• 12 years ago

The exact same thing happened to me during a product interview. I bumbled through product design with the PM and could tell things weren't going well based on the questions she was throwing back at me, the awkward silences, and the increasing number of logical traps I found myself in as the interview progressed.

After the interview, I started beating myself up over the dumb things I said. But after a few hours, I opened up Photoshop, mocked up a better solution and sent it over to the recruiter (who I then asked to forward my solution to my interviewer).

I progressed to the next round.

I honestly don't know if my revised solution helped or not, but I'm sure it didn't hurt.

fredophile• 12 years ago

We all have times when we're having a bad day and our performance is off. Unfortunately, this happened to you during an interview. I've had the same thing happen to me. Accept that this was just a bad day and not an indication of your skill level.

It's also worth remembering that interviewing well is a skill that most of us don't get a lot of practice at. The stress and unusual circumstances make simple tasks harder than normal. Next time try to find out in advance how the company you're interviewing with conducts their tests and try to simulate it yourself in advance. Do they use a particular screen sharing app? A different IDE? A whiteboard? Being more familiar with the situation can help you focus on the task at hand instead of being distracted by the circumstances.

JSeymourATL• 12 years ago

Anyone else do something similar? How did you recover?

Very human situation -- turns out that interviews and auditioning aren't always the ideal environment to evaluate talent. There's still time to salvage the situation.

Send the hiring executive a note today-- be candid "I totally choked, would you be amenable to a do-over? I'd like to show you that I really know my stuff."

Personal disclosure, learning, and good humor are desirable team member qualities. The worst they can do is say no.

archagon• 12 years ago

During one of my first ever tech interviews, I totally blanked on reversing a linked list. And it was a live interview, too! They even raised their eyebrows at me a bit. Really embarrassing. Like you, I whipped out my text editor after the fact and did it in a few minutes, just to prove to myself that I could. But I also made sure to carefully go over my understanding of linked lists, to really bake it into my memory, because I knew similar questions would come up again. It helped.

When you're in an interview, you lose the ability to hold a lot of things in your working memory. So you really have to rely on your intuition, at least until you learn to relax.

mapimopi• 12 years ago

Yes, this is exactly the story of my interview career.

I've been looking for a full time webdev job for a long time without any luck. I've been asked simple questions and failed them miserably. Failed to write a line of code similar to what I do on a daily basis ("did you actually done our online tests yourself?"), failed to answer on a question about a simple term that I knew (mostly because I read books and docs in original English, while being asked them in my native), failed to answer what projects I've worked on (because I forgot about them all at once), failed by looking for complexity in some trivial questions.

So yeah, the anxiety is strong in me. Meanwhile, I do freelance work part-time at night, making web apps for few clients, while working full-time on an unrelevant low wage job, fearing to lose it because I have to support my wife and 2yo.

Lessons learned from blowing an interview

Related Stories