Exercising but Gaining Weight

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/exercising-but-gaining-weight/?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000&abt=0002&abg=0&_r=0

by prostoalex • 12 years ago

30 54 12 years ago

well.blogs.nytimes.com

moonka2• 12 years ago

While this study didn’t track the women’s eating and movement habits away from the lab, it is likely that those who gained weight began eating more and moving less when they weren’t on the treadmills, “probably without meaning to,” Dr. Gaesser said.

Without knowing the whole picture, it seems hard to draw any sort of meaningful conclusion. Weight loss is almost entirely diet-based.

axlprose3• 12 years ago

Can someone please explain why this comment is getting downvoted? It is essentially saying the same thing as the current top 2 comments that exercise is not a terribly meaningful contributor to weight loss, and adds to the discussion that certain conclusions in the article may not be warranted given that context, using no inflammatory language. Yet it is almost invisible. What gives HN?

tomhenderson• 12 years ago

People often overeat when they start exercising, either because they're hungry from the exercise, or because they feel can indulge a bit as a reward.

My view is that most people should ignore exercise and fix their diet first, only easing in to an exercise routine slowly once they start to see weight loss results.

moonka2• 12 years ago

My view is that most people should ignore exercise and fix their diet first, only easing in to an exercise routine slowly once they start to see weight loss results.

Agreed. In the last few months, I've lost about 20 pounds via diet alone. I'm starting to incorporate exercise now, and it's a lot easier to keep going day after day since I can move easier, so I don't get discouraged as easily.

teen• 12 years ago

Running on a treadmill for an hour is about 600 calories. Eating an extra snack before bed can easily be that. To be calorie deficient and lose weight, it is so much easier to eat less than to exercise more. On top of that, exercising more can stimulate your appetite... leading to over eating. Basically you just have to be vigilant with not eating too much. I don't think counting calories is important, but 3 small meals (by american standards) or 2 regular meals a day, with low carbs, no sugar, and low dairy, will drop you to normal proportions very quickly.

phlosten• 12 years ago

I made massive changes to my diet a few months ago, after being diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes. The doctor said diet and exercise needed. Trying to keep it simple I didn't worry about the exercise, just changed the diet, the weight started falling off easily, as long as I ate regularly and kept my carbs to what was required.

I started riding to work this week. I am so god damn hungry right now.

I think if you are really needing weight loss you need your doctor involved. There is so much I have learned through having blood test results etc to work from.

My tips if you are interested:

* Cut out any added sugar. No sugar in coffee or whatever. Easy way to reduce energy intake. No more soft drink. * Have enough carbs each meal so your body hormones etc are getting stuff to work with. * Stay away from processed foods, keep out of those aisles. * Make exercise a normal part of life and skip the gym. Gyms are demotivational hell holes of despair. Climb the stairs at work, ride the bike, park further away, just go for a walk around the block, walk randomly around the city to explore.

cschmidt• 12 years ago

* Have enough carbs each meal so your body hormones etc are getting stuff to work with.

Your body doesn't actually need any carbs to function. It can run off of ketones rather than glucose. You might be interested to look into the keto diet, which works beautifully for people with diabetes. You eat low carb, but high fat. The FAQ of /r/keto on reddit is a good place to start.

ardit33• 12 years ago

I disagree. Going to the gym and building strength and muscle by lifting weights, is the best way to get your body fat low. You might actually gain weight, but it would be muscle.

Muscle requires more energy at rest, so you actually end up burning more calories on the long term.

therobot24• 12 years ago

going to the gym by yourself - kind of boring and would rather do the things you suggested (walking around, ride bike, etc), however going to the gym with a buddy/significant other is fun and often more productive than your original suggestions

lingben• 12 years ago

WHAT you eat can be as important or even more important as HOW MUCH you eat. 99% of people still don't get that, they think a calorie is a calorie.

We are not simply calorie burning machines. The human body, metabolism and related systems are incredibly more complex than that.

ThrustVectoring• 12 years ago

I agree with you, but that's not the argument I'd make for "What you eat" over "how much you eat."

The difficult part of managing weight isn't the food. The food is easy - eat less than X amount, and you will lose weight. No, the difficult part of it is mental. Food does more than simply provide nutrients. It satiates hunger and provides pleasurable experiences. People generally don't over-eat because they are lacking nutrients, they over-eat because they want the fun experiences of eating or to drive away the discomfort of feeling hungry.

So if you can give yourself smart choices about what you eat, and make it extra clear what the rules are for deciding things, you can exert a ton of control over how much you eat. Personally, I've lost 40 pounds on keto (an extremely low-card, moderate protein, high fat diet). I know keto does interact with your metabolism, but I suspect that a good chunk of the weight loss was simply by removing a lot of non-satiating calories.

dkrich• 12 years ago

Exactly. The real problem with fat gain/loss isn't sedentary vs. active lifestyles, it's calorie consumption. This is why smokers who never work out are usually extremely thin- they typically eat very little. That isn't of course to suggest that that is healthier than being a non-smoker who is overweight, but rather to show in an extreme case that for fat loss exercise is extremely overrated while simple calorie restriction is not given nearly enough attention.

The formula that I know works for me is calorie restriction and limiting carb/sugar intake as much as possible. This requires rethinking what is pretty much considered gospel in the U.S. Pretty much all breakfast foods other than eggs are just sugar and carbs and extremely fattening. Additionally, most meals in U.S. restaurants are about three times the size of what is actually needed to sufficiently sustain you until your next meal. If you want to lose weight and keep it off, increase your protein intake and cut your overall calorie and sugar intake.

prostoalex6• 12 years ago

The formula that I know works for me is calorie restriction and limiting carb/sugar intake as much as possible.

The latter might be more effective than the former. Dr. Atkins adopters have challenged people to gain weight on the high fat / high protein diet, and those who took up the challenge simply could not "fatten up" - after a while they could consume only so much meat, cheese, fish and green veggies before feeling completely satiated. So there is a hard practical limit on number of calories consumed on a protein/fat diet.

Compare that to carbohydrate-related cravings, where people talk about having just another [calorie-laden] scone, cookie, or piece of candy, and seemingly losing track of consumption.

rdtsc2• 12 years ago

Pretty much all breakfast foods other than eggs are just sugar and carbs and extremely fattening.

I never understood that. I came from another country and live here now for many years. I don't get it how breakfast is a completely acceptable time to eat just dessert food -- pancakes and syrop, waffles, oatmeal smothered in sugar honey and cinnamon, cereal, even "healthy" yogurt with sugar in it, toast with jam on it. Not saying I don't do it, I eat those things to once in a while without thinking much about it, but in general looking at it, it just seem so strange.

There is the whole "breakfast is the main meal of the day" mantra. Is that really true? Not sure anymore. Maybe it is something created by cereal and bacon producers out there...

For the curious, for breakfast, I am used to eating porridge -- buckweat, wheat, oatmeal with butter and salt. Or just rye (I call it "black") bread and butter (yeah I know bread is sugar too to some degree). Coldcuts, cheese, smoked fish. Not all healthy and good but most are not sweet.

Something that is hard to give up is fatty foods, I like bacon, olive oil on my things, even eat whole cured and spiced pork fat. I would cut slices of it and eat it as a snak. But I am almost underweight for my height.

DanBC2• 12 years ago

Exercise and diet combined is more effective than either alone. You get the health benefits from exercise, not from calorie reduction.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003817...

The 43 studies included 3476 participants. Although significant heterogeneity in some of the main effects' analyses limited ability to pool effect sizes across some studies, a number of pooled effect sizes were calculated. When compared with no treatment, exercise resulted in small weight losses across studies. Exercise combined with diet resulted in a greater weight reduction than diet alone (WMD - 1.0 kg; 95% confidence interval (CI) -1.3 to -0.7). Increasing exercise intensity increased the magnitude of weight loss (WMD - 1.5 kg; 95% CI -2.3 to -0.7). There were significant differences in other outcome measures such as serum lipids, blood pressure and fasting plasma glucose. Exercise as a sole weight loss intervention resulted in significant reductions in diastolic blood pressure (WMD - 2 mmHg; 95% CI -4 to -1), triglycerides (WMD - 0.2 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.3 to -0.1) and fasting glucose (WMD - 0.2 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.3 to -0.1). Higher intensity exercise resulted in greater reduction in fasting serum glucose than lower intensity exercise (WMD - 0.3 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.5 to -0.2). No data were identified on adverse events, quality of life, morbidity, costs or on mortality.
The results of this review support the use of exercise as a weight loss intervention, particularly when combined with dietary change. Exercise is associated with improved cardiovascular disease risk factors even if no weight is lost.

prostoalex6• 12 years ago

Basically you just have to be vigilant with not eating too much.

No. There's no consistent evidence of large groups of people who started reducing calories and in return lost pounds predictably. Subjects lose energy, become irritable, get headaches and migraines, have hunger pangs, every now and then just fall off the wagon and over-indulge, or just plain simple gain weight on reduced calorie diet in a controlled experiment.

The book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" contains in-depth research on the topic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Calories,_Bad_Calories

with low carbs, no sugar

Now you're onto something. Sugar and carbs stimulate insulin production, which then stimulates fat storage.

letstryagain3• 12 years ago

There's no consistent evidence of large groups of people who started reducing calories and in return lost pounds predictably.

The only inconsistencies come from inaccurate self reporting of caloric intake by study participants. There's been several meta-studies on this. Eating carbs/sugars is indeed a problem because of GI issues - you will feel hungry again soon after consuming sugar which makes it harder to stick to your calorie target.

jagawhowho• 12 years ago

Ethics prevent a real study where you lock the fatties in a cage and accurately measure the calories eaten.

Fatties lie like a pro when it comes to dieting.

steakejjs• 12 years ago

I think your comment shows part of the problem, which isn't mean as a dig.

carbs, sugar, low dairy, small portions? What does this leave you to eat? The average person will go crazy following these rules.

The problem is people aren't realistic about what they are eating and their activity level. It is okay to eat poptarts, icecream, whatever it is you like. But do so in moderation. It's not okay to develop a habit of gluttony while on the couch.

prawn• 12 years ago

There are countless great options you can derive from meat, vegetables, eggs and fruit.

axlprose3• 12 years ago

The problem with moderation of extremely sweet/carb-heavy foods, is that it is incredibly difficult to actually moderate, since they actually stimulate more hunger and cravings for similar foods. More difficult than actually cutting them out cold turkey I'd say.

Of course there's often times a stubborn emotional component to eating carb-laden food, so 'moderation' may help as an introduction to a healthy diet, but it's very difficult to pull off successfully without first being low-carb and just adding them in every now and then after the fact.

There's no clear-cut good way to approach it unfortunately as both methods obviously have their flaws, hence obesity is such a tough nut to crack.

peteretep• 12 years ago

"You can't outrun a fork"

Dylan168073• 12 years ago

600 calories. Eating an extra snack before bed can easily be that.

I agree that it's easy to eat a lot of calories without paying attention, but it's only self-delusion that calls that a snack. That's almost two mcdonald's sandwiches. That's four bowls of cereal. 600 calories is an entire meal.

mbrameld• 12 years ago

Or a 12 oz soda and 4 Reese's Cups.

dragonwriter2• 12 years ago

That's almost two mcdonald's sandwiches.

Its a hair more than one Big Mac (530 cal), Quarter Pounder with Cheese (520 cal), or Quarter Pounder Deluxe (540 cal), or Large Fries (510 cal), exactly one Quarter Pounder with Bacon and Cheese (600 cal), and less than one Bacon Clubhouse Burger (720 cal) or Double Quarter Pouder with Cheese (740 cal).

dnautics• 12 years ago

this is what I would have predicted from the description of the experimental setup. My understanding of human metabolism (which could be flawed, I'm a biochem PhD, not a nutrition PhD) For most people, regular aerobic exercise results in the body more regularly entering starvation mode and saving energy = storing fat. However, I suspect there are people with that signal defective, who can run like crazy and become thin as rails. For most of the rest of people, building muscle is a better strategy for losing weight.

meepmorp• 12 years ago

Starvation mode in the sense that you seem to intend is a myth: http://examine.com/faq/how-do-i-stay-out-of-starvation-mode....

Probably. I'm not an expert.

sytelus• 12 years ago

Anyone with even a rudimentary training knows this fact: Exercise don't help you loose weight. Even the heavy routines burn minuscule amount of calories that would be compensated by just couple of slices of bread. Exercise helps you build cardio and/or muscle strengths which is very different than loosing weight. The only sure shot way of loosing weight is diet control. Just stop eating simple carbs (aka white floor/grain/corn stuff and sugars from non-natural sources) and you can drop weight and keep it that way.

dragonwriter2• 12 years ago

Exercise don't help you loose weight. Even the heavy routines burn minuscule amount of calories that would be compensated by just couple of slices of bread. Exercise helps you build cardio and/or muscle strengths which is very different than loosing weight.

Increased muscle mass produces increased resting metabolic rate -- exercise often isn't a short-term help to losing weight, but its a long term help.

More importantly, "losing weight" is usually not the real objective, its a proxy measure for improving overall health and fitness, for which exercise is useful, even without weight loss.

adventured• 12 years ago

Exercise can easily help you lose weight.

Scenario: you weigh 300 pounds, your weight is fairly stabilized, and you have relatively little muscle and are mostly fat.

You're going to lose a lot of weight just by adding muscle through exercise in that case. The added muscle will burn a lot more calories resting, and with a non-inflating calorie intake, your new burn rate from the new muscle and exercise will start eroding your weight.

There, I just proved exercise can help you lose weight.

marknutter• 12 years ago

So the ones who gained weight were the one who said to themselves "I can have this extra donut, I'm working out now". Fascinating stuff.

jacorreia• 12 years ago

This study shows a bit of what the general public really needs to understand about personal health: it's very hard to train multiple aspects of your fitness with only one type of activity.

Doing cardio makes you better at cardio. Strength training makes you stronger. Diet and hypertrophy improves your body composition.

You'll always hear people say "Oh your legs must be so strong from all those marathons you do." Entirely false, their cardio-vascular system is strong. I can virtually guarantee that any moderately dedicated powerlifter can squat more than a long-distance runner (form notwithstanding). Similarly, a marathoner's lean physique is a result of their diet, which they require in order to be successful at running, not because of their training.

I really wish that more people would take the time to sit down, identify their fitness goals, and ensure that their lifestyle is focused towards achieving their goals. For most people, all this is taking a good look at your diet!

rdtsc2• 12 years ago

People are ridiculously bad at estimating the caloric content of food they eat. We can see the volume of food, feel the weight, taste it but we cannot without practice and training easily guess how many calories it will be.

Also people are just as bad at estimating how many calories they would burn by exercisng or walking.

We've all heard it -- "I'll need to walk around the block after eating that piece of cheese cake" phrase. I've said it myself many times. Even though I know it will take hours and hours of walking around a very large block to burn it off so to speak.

One more thing. There is a negative aspect of exercising in relation to weight that is often overlooked. Because of the pervious 2 points, people who do exercise will rationalize eating more food because "they will burn them off in 15 min on treadmill".

Now I am using "calories" here in a simplistic way, but we had long discussions before about how it is not as simple as calories and calories out. It is bit more complicated -- hunger, hormones, insulin level, fat storage rates etc.

SoftwareMaven2• 12 years ago

People are bad at estimating calories, but our bodies are really good at regulating them, if you feed it properly. The low fat diet advice has done horrendous things to people's metabolisms, leaving people insulin and leptin resistant. The insulin resistance disregulates the flow of fat through adipose membranes, favoring storage; the leptin resistance disregulates the appetite homeostasis that should regulate appetite, hunger, and weight. It can all be tracked back to the disproven diet heart hypothesis, and the fear of fat that ensued (and became enshrined like a religion).

thisrod• 12 years ago

For the purpose of this study, "exercise" means "walked on treadmills ... three times per week for 30 minutes". I'd be cautious about extrapolating the results to more than homeopathic doses.

mmastrac• 12 years ago

I'll add my single datum here. I lost a bunch of weight using the Hacker's Diet [1] when I was in university. I've occasionally put myself back on it as I get older, but there are two things that I believe are true about the way that I personally lose weight:

1) Losing weight while exercising is tough. I usually choose diet or exercise at any given time (or just light exercise so I'm not completely unfit by the end of the diet). I've had poor luck with exercise to lose weight, but it is very effective for maintaining it.

2) Fasting at the start of the diet -- and only at the very beginning -- seems to be critical to my success at losing weight [2]. Perhaps this has something to do with gut bacteria, metabolism or some psychosomatic factors. I'm not sure, but I basically cannot lose weight without that start.

As an aside, I've been very tempted to start an intermittent fast (even while not losing weight!) after seeing Michael Mosley's program on BBC a few years back. [3]

[1] https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html

[2] https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/subsubsection1_3_3_0_3...

[3] http://www.bbc.com/news/health-19112549

stevebmark• 12 years ago

Exercise controls mainly muscle composition.

Diet controls mainly fat composition.

Exercising to lose weight is a stupid idea.

Stop getting your health research from the news. Go read a book written by a doctor.

Exercising but Gaining Weight

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