Uber Flunks the Better Business Bureau Test

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/09/uber-flunks-the-better-business-bureau-test

by jhonovich • 12 years ago

38 48 12 years ago

bits.blogs.nytimes.com

adrianbg• 12 years ago

Given that "The Better Business Bureau, which was founded in 1912, is not a government agency, nor does it have regulatory or enforcement power," what implications does this have?

nknighthb2• 12 years ago

None. The BBB is best ignored.

sanderjd• 12 years ago

Any good replacements? Anybody I can lodge complaints with and trust to rate businesses? It seems like a useful service!

eli3• 12 years ago

the most significant fallout is probably this blog post.

potatolicious• 12 years ago

There are non-governmental regulatory organizations whose only real enforcement power is that people care what they think. The BBB is one of them.

That said, the BBB itself is not an entirely above-board operation, to say the least. I'm no fan of Uber's business tactics - which I consider deeply unethical - but having the BBB complain about its business integrity is the pot calling the kettle black.

jstalin2• 12 years ago

The BBB sells higher ratings to those businesses that will pay, and will often ignore legitimate complaints against those businesses.

timmclean• 12 years ago

Source?

DannyBee• 12 years ago

Well, the BBB will give an A to anyone who responds to complaints and marks them resolved, regardless of the number of complaints or whether they are resolved to the customer's satisfaction.

In that sense, yes, they ignore legitimate complaints, because they don't care ;)

Igglyboo• 12 years ago

None, they're pretty much a scam.

baddox• 12 years ago

In general, government agencies are not the only agents of consumer or producer discretion. In fact, I'd argue that they are in many cases the least effective of such agents.

That said, I get the impression that the BBB has very little relevance, at least with my peers. I don't think I've ever heard someone recommend patronizing or avoiding any company because of its BBB rating. But this certainly isn't the case for other non-government review agencies or individuals.

aneidon• 12 years ago

Yes. Uber flunks the BBB test by not paying up. Why is this news?

yeehawl• 12 years ago

I think it's a usability problem with the app - you can't easily see how much the trip is going to cost. It's actually not even completely apparent that you've booked a trip. The app should be redesigned to always show the quote before booking and a very clear button that says "Book Now". The pickup location UI could also use some work - the GPS isn't always accurate and noticing that it's wrong and changing it isn't very intuitive. But apart from the problematic app, I've found the service itself quite impressive - somehow they always manage to find me and it always ends up costing less than I think it will.

dmishe• 12 years ago

Not sure if this was updated recently, but:

With surge pricing, they always show the multiplier at the time of booking.

And it's easy to tap "quote fare" button to see the price. I agree that it should be there all the time, as soon as you select the destination, but that's the thing, lots of my rides do not have destination before I get into the car.

gergles• 12 years ago

The quoted price doesn't include the surge. Uber goes to very very great lengths to not show you how much you're paying when surge pricing is in play, abstracting it away to a multiplier always.

arjie• 12 years ago

When I have to accept surge pricing, I have to jump through hoops. Was this not always the case? At least currently, people shouldn't accidentally accept unless they click Accept compulsively.

gk1• 12 years ago

They now require you to type in a specified number (the surcharge factor) before you can even book during surge pricing, so there's no excuse for not knowing.

cheald• 12 years ago

Does anyone under the age of 65 actually place any faith in the BBB?

darkstar9993• 12 years ago

I used it to complain about a horrible ISP I had a few years ago. It got the ISPs attention when I otherwise couldn't. Other than that, it has no value to me.

nemothekid• 12 years ago

Uber gets an F, for 90 out of a million customer complaints, for providing a clear service but Comcast has a B-?

darkstar9993• 12 years ago

BBB is bullshit. It's pay-to-play extortion just like Yelp. Clearly Comcast has paid their dues.

http://business.time.com/2013/03/19/why-the-better-business-...

http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/a-court-has-ruled-its-totally...

jmckib2• 12 years ago

BBB is bullshit, agreed, but Yelp has made recent attempts to dispel the accusations of extortion, see http://www.yelp.com/advertiser_faq. This includes an independent academic study, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2293164%2....

I'm not claiming this evidence is conclusive (I haven't looked at it closely enough), but it's worth being aware of before making accusations like that.

eli3• 12 years ago

I believe the grade is about how they respond to complaints, not how many customers complain. I don't see how they could know how many customers use every business in America.

aberman• 12 years ago

The BBB gives Uber an "F" rating based on a handful of complaints? Uber serves over a million users a month! And I'd guess most of their customers are repeat - one sign that customers are happy with the service.

Donzo3• 12 years ago

On the Android app, surge pricing is VERY clearly labeled. You have to agree to the rate before service is dispatched and you have the option to wait until the surge ends if you so choose.

The problem with the BBB is that nobody goes there to report positive experiences. Only jaded customers use it to slam businesses with which they have a vendetta. Everybody other than an aging legacy group uses Yelp or other analogs.

Uber may fight dirty, but their product is outstanding. I'm firmly convinced that when regulators discover how amazing it is they will attempt to either legislate it out of existence or shake them down until their rates are no better than taxis.

chimeracoder• 12 years ago

or shake them down until their rates are no better than taxis.

Despite their advertising to the contrary, Uber's rates are not always lower than yellow medallion cabs in NYC. For certain trips it may be cheaper, but oftentimes it is just as expensive, if not more[0].

Uber's pricing structure is different from the ones that the medallion cabs use[1], so it's not a one-to-one comparison. This makes it very easy to pick and choose certain trips which would make Uber look cheaper (which they do), and it's also easy to pick and choose trips which make them look more expensive.

In addition, Uber is venture-funded and can easily operate below-cost right now (I would be shocked if they did otherwise).

So it's worth keeping in mind that Uber's rates are arguably already be no better than taxis', depending on the city, depending on the trip, and especially if we assume they had to operate in the black.

[0] This is hard to verify as Uber explicitly prohibits using their API for price comparison, specifically to discourage this. Though there was a project on HN a few weeks back which did do this, and the results were mixed (Uber won sometimes, but not always).

[1] Which are set by the government, not by individual cabbies: http://www.dailydot.com/technology/uber-nyc-taxi-cheaper-pri...

Donzo3• 12 years ago

I can say that in Chicago, Uber's rates are much better than taxi's. Enough so that I will accept 2x surge pricing and still feel as though I am saving money.

badusername• 12 years ago

NYC does seem to have one of the higher rates for uberX, but still a bit cheaper than taxi - http://blog.uber.com/nyc/uberX-price-cut

Swizec• 12 years ago

Despite their advertising to the contrary, Uber's rates are not always better than yellow medallion cabs in NYC

To be honest, I'd use Uber even if it was more expensive than taxis. User experience is leaps and bounds ahead of any taxi I've ever used.

Three things make Uber a far superior product compared to taxis for me:

  * no awkwardness/timesuck around payment, I arrive, I walk away

  * feedback how long I'll be waiting - when I'm in a hurry, seeing where exactly the car is and how long it's gonna take them to get to me helps calm me down, eases my nerves, even if it doesn't make the car arrive any faster (it *feels* faster though)

  * call cab while still getting ready to walk outside, again something that only works because I know how far the car is

eli3• 12 years ago

In fact here in DC I have twice found Uber's price comparisons to their competitors to just plain wrong.

They posted a correction not long after I complained about this particular post: http://blog.uber.com/DCuberXpricecut It originally said the DC Taxi would cost $20 instead of $14. Pretty far off.

(To be fair the new, lower UberX fares are now usually cheaper than a cab in DC... just not the whopping 51% cheaper they were claiming at one point.)

wyager• 12 years ago

I lived in NY for a while. Uber was always markedly cheaper, especially after factoring in tip (taxi drivers need tipping, Uber drivers don't).

More recent anecdote: I was interviewing in CA the other day. Airport taxi to Menlo Park: $125. Uber from Menlo Park to Airport: $31.

hrrsn• 12 years ago

On the Android app, surge pricing is VERY clearly labeled.

I've only had surge pricing once, but on iOS it is a separate screen, explaining the process and what multiplier you're charged. I have no sympathy for these people who go through this.

shampine• 12 years ago

You also have to type the multiplier, e.g. "2.5" to continue.

joelrunyon• 12 years ago

but their product is outstanding.

As they've expanded - their driver quality has gotten NOTICEABLY worse across MULTIPLE markets. I wonder how they're going to deal with training as some of the uber drivers poor experience has me rethinking about whether or not to use them.

teslaberry2• 12 years ago

our ENTIRE FINANCIALIZED WALL STREET economy flunks the better common sense bureau test.

teslaberry2• 12 years ago

our entire financialized wall street economy flunks the bbb test as well.

Glyptodon• 12 years ago

To be fair the BBB is mostly a collusive organization of businesses who pay dues to whitewash their problems while pretending to be objective.

If you want a laugh look for ratings and reviews on home warranty companies.

yangez• 12 years ago

The BBB is basically a protection racket with excellent PR.

Get a customer complaint? BBB contacts you to pay for membership. Don't want to pay for membership? You must not care about your customers, so you get an F-. Pay for membership and the score immediately goes up to a B.

But with a name like the "Better Business Bureau", it's no wonder that people get suckered into thinking it's a legitimate organization.

More info: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_customer/2010/12/... https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110919/14221016016/criti...

t0mbstone2• 12 years ago

This is ridiculous. Uber clearly details the price of the ride when you request it. People accept the estimated price, get picked up, driven to their location, then complain to BBB and want a refund because the price was "too high"? How dumb are these people, and why is the BBB validating their claims?

Uber Flunks the Better Business Bureau Test

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