Ask HN: Common Core Math, Better? Or Worse?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8300157

by eglover • 12 years ago

4 13 12 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

What do you think of common core math? I'm not a fan of common core at all, but I love how it teaches math. Instead of counting by ones, or doing crazy right to left carry the 1 nonsense it concentrates on going left to right.

For example, normally 14 + 17 would be:

7+4=11 -> Put the 1 in the ones place to "carry" it -> 1+1=2, plus your carried 1 = 3 -> Answer: 31

At higher levels it becomes harder to do math in your head with this foundation and students are more likely to depend on slow paper methods or calculators.

With common core 14 + 17 is:

(Tens place) 10 + 10 = 20 -> (Ones place) 7+4 = 6+4+1 = 10+1 = 11 -> 20 + 11 = 31.

This can indeed be harder to learn when on paper, but with the help of a teacher this is incredibly easy, and very fast. Most of you are probably already doing this in your head, and you probably taught it to yourself because what you learned in school is slow and taxes your personal RAM.

I don't get all the up and arms about it. As I understand it, this is how Asian countries do math (based on the abacus). When you look at the statistics, US schools do better at lower levels but cliff dives when it comes to middle school and beyond.

Some links:

Khan Academy: https://www.khanacademy.org/commoncore

Google Image Search for 'common core math': https://www.google.com/search?q=common+core+math&newwindow=1&safe=off&es_sm=122&qscrl=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=TusQVMn3Bo62yATlnoH4CQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1920&bih=965

joeclark774• 12 years ago

"Most of you are probably already doing this in your head"

This is the cargo cult thinking behind common core. What the self-appointed geniuses behind common core have done is, they observed that high performing students use various mental shortcuts so they don't have to do addition the formal way, or refer to multiplication tables. So they said, "let's not teach students to do addition the formal way, and let's not make them memorize multiplication tables", assuming this would make all the students high performers.

But the reason high performers are high performers is that they did learn addition the formal way and they did memorize their multiplication tables, then proceeded beyond that to adopt mental shortcuts. You can't just skip the foundational stuff.

eglover5• 12 years ago

1. You can't shortcut your way out of not knowing the multiplication table and basic arithmetic. Nobody does this.

2. The "formal way" as you put it is complex and unnecessary. It makes things harder, especially once you hit algebra. If you can't do simple two digit addition in your head by the time you start learning things that involve larger processes like inequalities and quadratic equations you WILL slow down and possibly become frustrated and lose confidence. If you want to get by in these subjects you have to start to depend on the calculator.

But guess what? Now you want to be a computer science major and all of the sudden you have to learn how to graph trig functions and find the instantaneous rate under a curve. Calculators can't help you now. In fact, everything you've just spent 4+ years cheating on must be fully understood at the manual level to even begin to grasp what you need to know now....

What you see in common core is not some magic a genius cabal created out of a Darwinian spite for the rest of mankind. It is an easier process that is used to create a much stronger foundation in mathematics. Nobody is telling kids to not know their multiplication tables, what they are saying is that there is an easier and quicker way to learn math.

That being said, I don't like monopolies and putting one on education is a dismal thing to do. With privatisation (real privatisation down to the accreditation level) you allow different things to be tried rather than one state staying, "This is how things will be done, hopefully we won't all be retarded in 20 years. If not, let's take credit and ignore that thing called the internet. If so, blame the current administration."

If enough people honestly believe "new math" (good song by Tom Lehrer) is the way to go, they can teach it to their kids. If people think what is proven to be better is... well... better, let them do it. When major differences appear in children from the same generation with one group knowing math and another not (like Asia vs. America), there'll be no complaining to do.

joeclark774• 12 years ago

The "formal way" as you put it is complex and unnecessary. It makes things harder, especially once you hit algebra. If you can't do simple two digit addition in your head by the time you start learning things that involve larger processes like inequalities and quadratic equations you WILL slow down and possibly become frustrated and lose confidence.

But how do you learn to do two digit addition in your head? You learn by doing two digit addition on paper over and over again. Students who are good at this will begin to notice patterns and develop shortcuts. You cannot just skip the learning and go right to the shortcuts.

This is the kind of stuff they're peddling under common core: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/346625.php http://twitchy.com/2014/04/10/common-core-insanity-for-six-y...

27182818284• 12 years ago

I'm not a fan of common core at all, but I love how it teaches math.

When the debate started heating up I took a course on common core. The amount of misconceptions surrounding it are surprising. My favorite probably being that the federal government is mandating it, when it was voluntarily adopted by 43 states. Another is that the images being passed around on Reddit and showing up in your search are the mandated way to teach math. They aren't. Nor are Khan Academy's lessons. It is more about landings than the individual stairs. By landing X student should be able to do Y. What stairs you took in between is your business. Lesson plans are still derived by the teachers, some are just awful at their jobs or themselves have misconceptions that they have to follow a hideous thing done by another teacher in another state.

dragonwriter• 12 years ago

A lot of what people think is required by Common Core is what someone selling something has used Common Core as a selling point (a similar thing happens with HIPAA.)

eglover5• 12 years ago

Sounds like laziness to me, which is of course rampant among teachers.

It does amaze me that googling "common core math" brings up the things it does. Even in a world where we have access to all information, everyone seems to be trying to bullshit everything. I find it very difficult to find the facts on most things.

But when I saw that Khan Academies methods were starting to mirror "The Great Courses" "Secrets of Mental Math"[1] and that it was a part of the common core, I was impressed. Once I started learning things this way, I was better able to handle all math. I used to hate it, dread it. But this kind of thing makes it easy and fun. I'm glad kids are being exposed to it.

[1] http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/secrets-of-mental-mat...

alain94040• 12 years ago

The great thing about common core is the disappearance of multiple-choice tests. Anyone who grew up outside the US will tell you that having to show your reasoning is much superior to picking between ABC and D.

eglover5• 12 years ago

I didn't know that, is that universal or only for math? It definitely makes sense for math as you can get close and easily guess. So you can have no idea what you're doing and still get a 70% or so.

AjJi• 12 years ago

I can count the number of multiple-choice tests I had on the fingers of my hands, and all of them were tests preparing for tech certifications.

When discussing the multiple choice format between students, we've always thought that it's way easier to get the guess the right answer between choices than to show how you got there.

It's even worse outside of math classes, say history, and you're asked "when did $COUNTRY get its independence", obviously, it's much easier when you have a list of choices to choose from.

Ask HN: Common Core Math, Better? Or Worse?

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